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Taxacom: Gender agreement is easy - beer example

Michael Heads m.j.heads at gmail.com
Tue Jul 4 20:14:29 CDT 2023 

I couldn't resist looking up 'glochidiatusum': 'The species epithet
refers to the shape of epandrium, which is spheroid in dorsal view'.
Ludicrous name and mad etymology, but published in the European Journal of
Taxonomy!

On Wed, Jul 5, 2023 at 12:28 PM Michael A. Ivie via Taxacom <
taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:

> Well-meaning attempts to conform to gender agreement have given us this
> recent addition to the Lexicon: Cryptochetum glochidiatusum.  Scream all
> you want, this is reality and is the future with the current rules.  Is
> this neuter?  How would you even fix this?  I don't think it can be fixed?
>
> Mike
>
> On 7/4/2023 5:24 PM, Scott Thomson wrote:
> >
> > ***External Sender***
> >
> > Thanks Michael a perfect example of my point re computers, computers
> > cannot "feel" the correct answer that requires what we call common
> > sense, and computers are idiots when it comes to common sense.
> >
> > I almost finished my last post on the other thread with this:
> >
> > If this were easy it would have been done and we would not be having
> > this conversation.
> >
> > Cheers Scott
> >
> > Em ter., 4 de jul. de 2023 às 20:03, Michael A. Ivie via Taxacom
> > <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> escreveu:
> >
> >     I have renamed this so that I am not replying to any specific
> >     person's
> >     comment and cut off the tail.
> >
> >     Regarding gender agreement.  For those that think that learning a few
> >     simple rules and then just knowing what the answer is, let's look
> >     at a
> >     real world example we can all appreciate - from Beer. Everyone who
> >     has
> >     taken a few introduction to Spanish classes, or who grew up with
> >     Spanish
> >     speakers, or has a working grasp of Spanish that works for
> >     travel,  but
> >     did not get a degree in Spanish Language, knows the simple rules of
> >     gender agreement in Spanish. You can follow it because it sounds
> >     right,
> >     and "feels" right.
> >
> >     However, there is an excellent (my opinion) Mexican beer named Negra
> >     Modelo.  Clearly, Modelo ends in an "o" and is masculine, so the
> >     modifier must conform and also end in an "o."  So this name is wrong,
> >     and many many people say "Negro Modelo" or "Negra Modela" as a
> >     reflexive
> >     conformity to gender agreement (similar to correcting a species name
> >     with the "wrong" ending).  Why would a company screw this up like
> >     this?
> >
> >     Well, in an example just like what happens with scientific names,
> >     deeper
> >     knowledge of a language is needed than having a basic working
> >     knowledge
> >     of a language in order to get the details correct. "Modelo," meaning
> >     "style or fashion" is a Greek borrow-word taken into Spanish as a
> >     direct
> >     form.  In Greek that last "o" is feminine (in this case), so it
> >     retains
> >     its feminine form in Spanish and modifiers conform by ending in an
> >     "a."
> >     How the ### are you supposed to just know that?  Same happens with
> >     "El
> >     Drama."
> >
> >     Gender agreement that is absolutely and always correct is not
> >     something
> >     perfectly easy to a non-fluent speaker - of any language.
> >
> >     Keep it or get rid of it, but don't call it easy and simple.
> >
> >     Mike
> >
> >     --
> >     __________________________________________________
> >
> >     Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
> >
> >     NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
> >
> >     US Post Office Address:
> >     Montana Entomology Collection
> >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
> >     PO Box 173145
> >     Montana State University
> >     Bozeman, MT 59717
> >     USA
> >
> >     UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> >     Montana Entomology Collection
> >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
> >     1911 West Lincoln Street
> >     Montana State University
> >     Bozeman, MT 59718
> >     USA
> >
> >
> >     (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> >     (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> >     mivie at montana.edu
> >
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> >
> >     Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring
> >     alliteration for about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Scott Thomson
> >
> > Centro de Estudos dos Quelônios da Amazônia - CEQUA
> > Petrópolis, Manaus
> > State of Amazonas, 69055-010
> > Brasil
> >
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> >
> > Skype: Faendalimas
> > Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
> > Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
> >
> --
> __________________________________________________
>
> Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>
> NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
>
> US Post Office Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> PO Box 173145
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59717
> USA
>
> UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> 1911 West Lincoln Street
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59718
> USA
>
>
> (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> mivie at montana.edu
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
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> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
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>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>


-- 
Dunedin, New Zealand.

My books:

*Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC, Boca
Raton FL. 2017.
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHeads%2Fp%2Fbook%2F9781498751872&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C585315571b664e7de84708db7cf5371a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638241164871595530%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0wrTJWsNQefndxixveam%2FHAcgAQ8dNz6CwnCYgQlniU%3D&reserved=0


*Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge University
Press, Cambridge. 2014. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C585315571b664e7de84708db7cf5371a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638241164871595530%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=w2Z8GzpbzCpyblH%2FSNwnpHjnl6fT8iWh0VXQP%2FUMo9c%3D&reserved=0


*Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California Press,
Berkeley. 2012. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C585315571b664e7de84708db7cf5371a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638241164871595530%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FN1%2BMBH1%2BBxMY5blIKfdVOPYtM5BgKfMxfNCAJBwGkc%3D&reserved=0


*Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University Press,
New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C585315571b664e7de84708db7cf5371a%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638241164871595530%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=jvLOI2UX6HzRR8CsY9%2Fa%2BvT2BRW%2BjeIHoSGNlhnmUcg%3D&reserved=0
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