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Taxacom: Gender agreement is easy - beer example

Michael A. Ivie mivie at montana.edu
Tue Jul 4 19:28:08 CDT 2023 

Well-meaning attempts to conform to gender agreement have given us this 
recent addition to the Lexicon: Cryptochetum glochidiatusum.  Scream all 
you want, this is reality and is the future with the current rules.  Is 
this neuter?  How would you even fix this?  I don't think it can be fixed?

Mike

On 7/4/2023 5:24 PM, Scott Thomson wrote:
>
> ***External Sender***
>
> Thanks Michael a perfect example of my point re computers, computers 
> cannot "feel" the correct answer that requires what we call common 
> sense, and computers are idiots when it comes to common sense.
>
> I almost finished my last post on the other thread with this:
>
> If this were easy it would have been done and we would not be having 
> this conversation.
>
> Cheers Scott
>
> Em ter., 4 de jul. de 2023 às 20:03, Michael A. Ivie via Taxacom 
> <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> escreveu:
>
>     I have renamed this so that I am not replying to any specific
>     person's
>     comment and cut off the tail.
>
>     Regarding gender agreement.  For those that think that learning a few
>     simple rules and then just knowing what the answer is, let's look
>     at a
>     real world example we can all appreciate - from Beer. Everyone who
>     has
>     taken a few introduction to Spanish classes, or who grew up with
>     Spanish
>     speakers, or has a working grasp of Spanish that works for
>     travel,  but
>     did not get a degree in Spanish Language, knows the simple rules of
>     gender agreement in Spanish. You can follow it because it sounds
>     right,
>     and "feels" right.
>
>     However, there is an excellent (my opinion) Mexican beer named Negra
>     Modelo.  Clearly, Modelo ends in an "o" and is masculine, so the
>     modifier must conform and also end in an "o."  So this name is wrong,
>     and many many people say "Negro Modelo" or "Negra Modela" as a
>     reflexive
>     conformity to gender agreement (similar to correcting a species name
>     with the "wrong" ending).  Why would a company screw this up like
>     this?
>
>     Well, in an example just like what happens with scientific names,
>     deeper
>     knowledge of a language is needed than having a basic working
>     knowledge
>     of a language in order to get the details correct. "Modelo," meaning
>     "style or fashion" is a Greek borrow-word taken into Spanish as a
>     direct
>     form.  In Greek that last "o" is feminine (in this case), so it
>     retains
>     its feminine form in Spanish and modifiers conform by ending in an
>     "a."
>     How the ### are you supposed to just know that?  Same happens with
>     "El
>     Drama."
>
>     Gender agreement that is absolutely and always correct is not
>     something
>     perfectly easy to a non-fluent speaker - of any language.
>
>     Keep it or get rid of it, but don't call it easy and simple.
>
>     Mike
>
>     -- 
>     __________________________________________________
>
>     Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>
>     NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
>
>     US Post Office Address:
>     Montana Entomology Collection
>     Marsh Labs, Room 50
>     PO Box 173145
>     Montana State University
>     Bozeman, MT 59717
>     USA
>
>     UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
>     Montana Entomology Collection
>     Marsh Labs, Room 50
>     1911 West Lincoln Street
>     Montana State University
>     Bozeman, MT 59718
>     USA
>
>
>     (406) 994-4610 (voice)
>     (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
>     mivie at montana.edu
>
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>     Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring
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>
>
> -- 
> Scott Thomson
>
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-- 
__________________________________________________

Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.

NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers

US Post Office Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
PO Box 173145
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA

UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West Lincoln Street
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59718
USA


(406) 994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu

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