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Taxacom: Dates of e-pubs ahead of print?

John Grehan calabar.john at gmail.com
Mon Sep 5 16:32:25 CDT 2022 

Then you could not be wasting any 'more' time. I guess you were saying that
to continue to comment further would be a waste of your time, but your
earlier contributions were not a waste of your time.

On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 5:16 PM Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
wrote:

> It was worth pointing out the issue and proposing a partial solution
>
> On Tuesday, 6 September 2022 at 09:06:43 am NZST, John Grehan <
> calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Stephen - if you " do not wish to waste much more of my time on this", why
> were you willing to waste your time in the first place? :)
>
> John
>
> On Mon, Sep 5, 2022 at 4:57 PM Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>  Lynn,
> I do not wish to waste much more of my time on this. There have been
> dozens of duplicates of Zootaxa on ZooBank over the years, regularly merged
> by Rich. At any rate, it would certainly help if the following rule was
> added to the Code:
> Duplicate records of a journal (including the original record) are all
> deemed to be associated with an archive from the earliest date on which any
> one of them was explicitly associated with an archive.
> Cheers, Stephen
>     On Tuesday, 6 September 2022 at 01:35:28 am NZST, Lynn Raw <
> lynn at afriherp.org> wrote:
>
>  Incidentally there are two records for Zootaxa, one of the most prolific
> publishers of taxonomic papers. Stephen, would you say that the 22
> publications under the upper record are invalid as they do not have any
> indication of an archive?
> LSIDurn:lsid:zoobank.org:pub:5F4FEA91-C796-450A-8E1A-A26048A36D2D
>
>
>
> (22 publications)
>
> | Series: |  |
> | ISSN (Print): | 1175-5326 |
> | (Online): | 1175-5334 |
> | Publisher: |  |
> | Place Published: |  |
> | Language:
>  |
>
>
>
> LSIDurn:lsid:zoobank.org:pub:78F99150-21C2-4639-B359-F3E2302DF0B7
>  (27045 publications)
>
>
>
>
> | Series: |  |
> | ISSN (Print): | 1175-5326 |
> | (Online): | 1175-5334 |
> | Online Archives: | National Digital Heritage Archive of The National
> Library of New Zealand (added: Sep 3 2012 2:02PM UTC) [
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.natlib.govt.nz%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C0562dce886134171d22b08da8f8636c7%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637980103874027493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=gBc0ZUvvWKO9VT%2B1eBiSPoFqx%2BtskmsuA1H5%2BIBiy%2BY%3D&reserved=0];
> Biotaxa (added: Feb 25 2013 7:22PM UTC) [
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbiotaxa.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C0562dce886134171d22b08da8f8636c7%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637980103874027493%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7X%2F7sRi2mr1OOmexmIoqSy7%2BtN3RVgRvpdOHm6Antnk%3D&reserved=0]
> |
> | Publisher: | Magnolia Press |
> | Place Published: | Auckland, New Zealand |
> | Language: | English |
>
>
> There may be an explanation for this as the 22 publications above were all
> published in 2022. Perhaps an administrative error by the journal staff or
> authors trying to register their work independently?
> Lynn
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5 Sep 2022, at 15.09, Lynn Raw via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> wrote:
> Stephen, If you spot what appears to be an invalid journal registration
> then it is simple matter of searching Zoobank for duplicate entries of the
> journal. If duplicates are found then if one of those entries is compliant
> then your question is answered. If not then wouldn’t it be a good idea to
> notify those involved of the problem?
>
> Lynn
>
>
>
> On 5 Sep 2022, at 13.15, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
> wrote:
>
>
> Lynn, I'm not confusing anything. If someone preregisters an article on
> ZooBank today, creating a new journal record without a specified archive,
> then the journal record used has no specified archive, so the registration
> is ineffectual, EXCEPT that Rich is saying that if there already exists a
> duplicate record for the same journal, but with a specified archive
> (created, say a decade ago), then if Rich merges the duplicate journal
> records into one, the registration looks as though it used the old journal
> record all along, i.e. the one with the specified archive. What this means
> is that if you want to look at ZooBank to verify that a pregistration was
> done properly, you have to consider duplicate journal records which may
> eventually be merged. This just complicates matters and seems rather messy
> to my mind. It is basically rewriting history to cover up mistakes.
> Cheers, Stephen
> On Monday, 5 September 2022 at 10:33:22 pm NZST, Adam Cotton via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>
> On 04/09/2022 04:41, Thomas Pape via Taxacom wrote:
>
> Names that are published [for the purposes of zoological nomenclature]
> after 1930 but fails to conform to Art. 13 are nomina nuda.
> Names published [for the purposes of zoological nomenclature] after 1999
> and complying with Art. 13 but not complying with Article 16 are
> "unavailable".
>
> /Thomas
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I was waiting for further comment on this or direct replies to my
> question repeated here:
>
> What status do you give to names published after 1999 but not
> complying with Article 16? I would also treat these as nomina nuda.
>
>
> Since there have been no further replies I would like to bring it up
> again, particularly as it seems to be an unclear consequence of the
> wording of Code edition 4.
>
> I feel that while I agree with Thomas Pape's reply, just referring to
> names which are non-compliant with article 16 to be treated as
> 'unavailable' is somewhat inadequate. I am particularly thinking of how
> to treat such names in synonymic lists. Calling these 'Nomen Nudum' is a
> clear label, but separating them as just 'unavailable' brings up the
> question 'why?' in the mind of a reader of the synonymic list for a taxon.
>
> I have generally regarded such names as nomina nuda because they are
> effectively the same ... names in a work which conforms to Code
> publication requirements, but which are not available for use as taxon
> names.
>
> I shall explain my particular case further, but without specifics. An
> author published a butterfly book in 2007 in which he described and
> named several new subspecies without designating type specimens
> according to article 16.4.1. After publication I contacted the author,
> who told me that he hadn't realised that the criteria had changed since
> the 3rd edition (i.e. he hadn't bothered to read the 4th edition). I
> then explained that he needed to re-describe the taxa in a Code
> compliant manner.
>
> In 2012 he published a 2nd edition of the book with holotypes
> designated, mostly not conforming to article 16.4.2 (indication of
> location of the holotype) but all of these names not conforming to
> article 16.1. In the 2nd edition he quoted the descriptions in the 1st
> edition but clearly treated each name as described in 2007, not
> explicitly stating them to be new from the 2012 publication. At this
> stage I gave up trying to advise him, as some names were no more than
> synonyms and others had been validly described elsewhere.
>
> My question about names which do not comply with article 16 was not
> specifically aimed at this case, but was a more general response to the
> Glossary definition of nomina nuda.
>
>
> Adam.
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