[Taxacom] Taxonomy and nomenclature deliberately confused to further an agenda
Stephen Thorpe
stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Mon Aug 22 20:34:00 CDT 2016
2016
Scott,
Just to correct one clear error in what you wrote, you said "Hence they are all in limbo effectively. Until the ICZN decides".
No, the Code is clear that the prima facie status quo is to be maintained pending any official decisions by the ICZN.
Stephen
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 23/8/16, Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Taxonomy and nomenclature deliberately confused to further an agenda
To: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Received: Tuesday, 23 August, 2016, 1:24 PM
Hi Stephen,
again I actually agree with
you. Maybe not as emphatically but you are
correct. I have not read the recent paper you
cite, but stating that his
names are not up
to scratch and hence will be ignored was not the best way
to do this. People have tried all sorts of
ways, including stating that the
journal is
not "simultaneous identical copies" because of
various printer
errors, which is beyond the
intentions of the Code.
I
do not know what the actual opinions of the authors were,
obviously they
did not want to use the Hoser
names. They could of just left it at not
using them, as per Kaiser et al. 2013, possibly
also cited the Rhodin et
al. 2014. Comment
on Spracklandus. The Hoser 2013 paper is one of those
covered by the comment. In that we requested
volumes 1-24 of AJH be
declared unavailable
for nomenclature. Hence they are all in limbo
effectively. Until the ICZN decides.
Reality is the names will
never be used. There is nothing I could do to
change that.
Cheers, Scott
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:33 AM, Stephen
Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
> wrote:
> "In the meantime, herpetology deals
with it its own way"
>
> Yes, but "it's own way" is
based on garbage assertions to the effect, in
> this case, that Hoser's descriptions
aren't "up to scratch", so his new
> names are unavailable. That is utter
NONSENSE. The most honest and open way
>
to say it is "we don't like Hoser, so we choose to
ignore his new names and
> describe the
taxa again as new". That is the TRUTH!
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
--------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 22/8/16, Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Subject:
Re: [Taxacom] Taxonomy and nomenclature deliberately
confused to
> further an agenda
> To: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
<taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Received: Monday, 22 August, 2016, 3:14
PM
>
> I am sure
Stephen will
> say I have my own agenda
here. But this time I do
> not.
>
> The
> general view in herpetology is that with
some 830
> nomenclatural acts at
> various taxonomic
>
levels across frogs, snakes, lizards, turtles and
> crocodiles it is not in the interests of
anyone
> working with herpetofauna
> to follow these
>
names. They are ignored, some journals will not even
> accept
> papers
that use them. They are not
> followed
by ether the IUCN or CITES
> making
> it impossible to use them due to
legislative frameworks that
> are
> pretty strict when it comes to
> vertebrates. This is not my viewpoint
per
> se, but a general consensus
across the field.
> I acknowledge the
names are
> published, I
> have said so in press in the comments I
was involved with
> on
> Case 3601.
>
> I get Stephen's point of view, and
he is
> right. But in the year since
the
> major
>
comment I made on the Spracklandus case (3601) about 100
> more names
> have
been produced. The issue
> does have to
be dealt with. In the meantime,
>
herpetology deals with it its own way.
>
> Cheers, Scott
>
> On Sun, Aug 21,
2016 at 9:40
> PM, Barry OConnor <bmoc at umich.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > As I recall,
>
this issue was discussed ad nauseum some time back, with
> the
> > general
conclusion being just as
> you say: if
everyone ignores the names,
> >
> they will go away, acceptance of the
Code being voluntary
> after all.
> > All the best! - Barry
> >
> > On Sun,
Aug 21, 2016
> at 7:48 PM, Michael A.
Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
> > wrote:
>
>
> > > Stephen,
> > >
> >
> While your horrified tone it totally
> justified, and your interpretation
> > >
> spot
on, this is a great example for my class of the fact
> that the Code
>
> is
> >
>
> only followed voluntarily, and anyone is actually
free
> to just go off on
> > > their own
> direction.
> >
>
> >
> >
This Hoser thing needs to be dealt with, it is
> festering badly as it is.
> > >
> >
> Mike
> > >
> > >
> >
> On
> 8/21/2016 3:52 PM, Stephen
Thorpe wrote:
> > >
> > >> This is
> disturbingly unfortunate:
> > >>
>
> >> Bucklitsch, Y.; Böhme, W.; Koch,
> A. 2016: Scale morphology and
> > >>
>
micro-structure of monitor lizards (Squamata: Varanidae:
> Varanus spp.)
>
> and
> >
>
>> their allies: implications for systematics,
> ecology, and conservation.
> > >>
>
Zootaxa, 4153(1): 1-192. doi: 10.11646/zootaxa.4153.1.1
> > >>
>
> >> See
> p. 38: [Quote]Due
to several severe shortcomings of
>
Hoser’s (2013)
> > >>
descriptions,
> we follow the opinion
and recommendation by Kaiser et al.
>
> >> (2013) and consider the genus
> name proposed by Hoser (2013) for the
V.
> > >> prasinus species
group
> unscientific and
unavailable.[unquote]
> >
> >>
> >
>> So, if an author
> considers
(for whatever reason) that a previous
>
> author's
> > >>
> description is inadequate in some
(unspecified) way(s), then
> the new
> > name
> >
> >> can be considered to be
unavailable, ignored and
> renamed as
new! I must
> > >> have
> missed that in the Code!!
> > >>
>
> >> Yuck,
> >
> >>
> >
>> Stephen
> > >>
>
_______________________________________________
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> > >>
>
> >>
> Injecting Intellectual
Liquidity for 29 years.
> >
>>
> > >
> > > --
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
> > >
> >
> Michael A.
> Ivie, Ph.D.,
F.R.E.S.
> > >
> > > NOTE: two addresses with
different
> Zip Codes depending on
carriers
> > >
> > > US Post Office Address:
> > > Montana Entomology
Collection
> > > Marsh Labs, Room
50
> > > PO Box 173145
> >
> > Montana
State University
> > >
> Bozeman, MT 59717
>
> > USA
> > >
> > > UPS, FedEx,
> DHL Address:
> >
> Montana Entomology
> Collection
> > > Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > > 1911 West Lincoln Street
> > > Montana State University
> > > Bozeman, MT 59718
> > > USA
>
> >
> > >
> > > (406)
>
994-4610 (voice)
> > > (406)
994-6029
> (FAX)
>
> > mivie at montana.edu
> > >
> >
>
>
_______________________________________________
> > > Taxacom Mailing List
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> > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > The Taxacom Archive back to
1992 may
> be searched at:
> > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > >
> >
> Injecting
> Intellectual Liquidity
for 29 years.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -So
many mites, so little time!
> >
> > Barry M. OConnor
> > Professor & Curator
> > Department of Ecology &
Evolutionary
> Biology
> > University of Michigan
> phone: 734-763-4354
> >
> 1109 Geddes
Ave. fax:
> 734-763-4080
> >
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1079
>
e-mail: bmoc at umich.edu
> >
>
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> searched at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> >
Injecting
> Intellectual Liquidity for
29 years.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Scott Thomson
>
Museu de Zoologia da Universidade de São
> Paulo
> Divisão de
Vertebrados
> (Herpetologia)
> Avenida Nazaré, 481,
> Ipiranga
>
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>
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years.
>
>
--
Scott Thomson
Museu de Zoologia
da Universidade de São Paulo
Divisão de
Vertebrados (Herpetologia)
Avenida Nazaré,
481, Ipiranga
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http://www.carettochelys.com
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