[Taxacom] Taxonomy and nomenclature deliberately confused to further an agenda
Scott Thomson
scott.thomson321 at gmail.com
Mon Aug 22 20:49:22 CDT 2016
2016
Yes I know, the status quo being used is the prevailing usage prior to the
names being produced, at least that is roughly what we suggested in the
comment. I agree with your next point though this does not mean they should
be renamed at this point.
Cheers, Scott
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 10:34 PM, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
> wrote:
> Scott,
> Just to correct one clear error in what you wrote, you said "Hence they
> are all in limbo effectively. Until the ICZN decides".
> No, the Code is clear that the prima facie status quo is to be maintained
> pending any official decisions by the ICZN.
> Stephen
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 23/8/16, Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Taxonomy and nomenclature deliberately confused to
> further an agenda
> To: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Received: Tuesday, 23 August, 2016, 1:24 PM
>
> Hi Stephen,
>
> again I actually agree with
> you. Maybe not as emphatically but you are
> correct. I have not read the recent paper you
> cite, but stating that his
> names are not up
> to scratch and hence will be ignored was not the best way
> to do this. People have tried all sorts of
> ways, including stating that the
> journal is
> not "simultaneous identical copies" because of
> various printer
> errors, which is beyond the
> intentions of the Code.
>
> I
> do not know what the actual opinions of the authors were,
> obviously they
> did not want to use the Hoser
> names. They could of just left it at not
> using them, as per Kaiser et al. 2013, possibly
> also cited the Rhodin et
> al. 2014. Comment
> on Spracklandus. The Hoser 2013 paper is one of those
> covered by the comment. In that we requested
> volumes 1-24 of AJH be
> declared unavailable
> for nomenclature. Hence they are all in limbo
> effectively. Until the ICZN decides.
>
> Reality is the names will
> never be used. There is nothing I could do to
> change that.
>
> Cheers, Scott
>
> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:33 AM, Stephen
> Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
> > wrote:
>
> > "In the meantime, herpetology deals
> with it its own way"
> >
> > Yes, but "it's own way" is
> based on garbage assertions to the effect, in
> > this case, that Hoser's descriptions
> aren't "up to scratch", so his new
> > names are unavailable. That is utter
> NONSENSE. The most honest and open way
> >
> to say it is "we don't like Hoser, so we choose to
> ignore his new names and
> > describe the
> taxa again as new". That is the TRUTH!
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> >
> >
> --------------------------------------------
> > On Mon, 22/8/16, Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Subject:
> Re: [Taxacom] Taxonomy and nomenclature deliberately
> confused to
> > further an agenda
> > To: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu"
> <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > Received: Monday, 22 August, 2016, 3:14
> PM
> >
> > I am sure
> Stephen will
> > say I have my own agenda
> here. But this time I do
> > not.
> >
> > The
> > general view in herpetology is that with
> some 830
> > nomenclatural acts at
> > various taxonomic
> >
> levels across frogs, snakes, lizards, turtles and
> > crocodiles it is not in the interests of
> anyone
> > working with herpetofauna
> > to follow these
> >
> names. They are ignored, some journals will not even
> > accept
> > papers
> that use them. They are not
> > followed
> by ether the IUCN or CITES
> > making
> > it impossible to use them due to
> legislative frameworks that
> > are
> > pretty strict when it comes to
> > vertebrates. This is not my viewpoint
> per
> > se, but a general consensus
> across the field.
> > I acknowledge the
> names are
> > published, I
> > have said so in press in the comments I
> was involved with
> > on
> > Case 3601.
> >
> > I get Stephen's point of view, and
> he is
> > right. But in the year since
> the
> > major
> >
> comment I made on the Spracklandus case (3601) about 100
> > more names
> > have
> been produced. The issue
> > does have to
> be dealt with. In the meantime,
> >
> herpetology deals with it its own way.
> >
> > Cheers, Scott
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 21,
> 2016 at 9:40
> > PM, Barry OConnor <bmoc at umich.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > As I recall,
> >
> this issue was discussed ad nauseum some time back, with
> > the
> > > general
> conclusion being just as
> > you say: if
> everyone ignores the names,
> > >
> > they will go away, acceptance of the
> Code being voluntary
> > after all.
> > > All the best! - Barry
> > >
> > > On Sun,
> Aug 21, 2016
> > at 7:48 PM, Michael A.
> Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
> > > wrote:
> >
> >
> > > > Stephen,
> > > >
> > >
> > While your horrified tone it totally
> > justified, and your interpretation
> > > >
> > spot
> on, this is a great example for my class of the fact
> > that the Code
> >
> > is
> > >
> >
> > only followed voluntarily, and anyone is actually
> free
> > to just go off on
> > > > their own
> > direction.
> > >
> >
> > >
> > >
> This Hoser thing needs to be dealt with, it is
> > festering badly as it is.
> > > >
> > >
> > Mike
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > On
> > 8/21/2016 3:52 PM, Stephen
> Thorpe wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> This is
> > disturbingly unfortunate:
> > > >>
> >
> > >> Bucklitsch, Y.; Böhme, W.; Koch,
> > A. 2016: Scale morphology and
> > > >>
> >
> micro-structure of monitor lizards (Squamata: Varanidae:
> > Varanus spp.)
> >
> > and
> > >
> >
> >> their allies: implications for systematics,
> > ecology, and conservation.
> > > >>
> >
> Zootaxa, 4153(1): 1-192. doi: 10.11646/zootaxa.4153.1.1
> > > >>
> >
> > >> See
> > p. 38: [Quote]Due
> to several severe shortcomings of
> >
> Hoser’s (2013)
> > > >>
> descriptions,
> > we follow the opinion
> and recommendation by Kaiser et al.
> >
> > >> (2013) and consider the genus
> > name proposed by Hoser (2013) for the
> V.
> > > >> prasinus species
> group
> > unscientific and
> unavailable.[unquote]
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> >> So, if an author
> > considers
> (for whatever reason) that a previous
> >
> > author's
> > > >>
> > description is inadequate in some
> (unspecified) way(s), then
> > the new
> > > name
> > >
> > >> can be considered to be
> unavailable, ignored and
> > renamed as
> new! I must
> > > >> have
> > missed that in the Code!!
> > > >>
> >
> > >> Yuck,
> > >
> > >>
> > >
> >> Stephen
> > > >>
> >
> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Taxacom Mailing List
> > > >> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > >> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > >> The Taxacom Archive back
> to 1992
> > may be searched at:
> > > >> http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > > >>
> >
> > >>
> > Injecting Intellectual
> Liquidity for 29 years.
> > >
> >>
> > > >
> > > > --
> > >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________
> > > >
> > >
> > Michael A.
> > Ivie, Ph.D.,
> F.R.E.S.
> > > >
> > > > NOTE: two addresses with
> different
> > Zip Codes depending on
> carriers
> > > >
> > > > US Post Office Address:
> > > > Montana Entomology
> Collection
> > > > Marsh Labs, Room
> 50
> > > > PO Box 173145
> > >
> > > Montana
> State University
> > > >
> > Bozeman, MT 59717
> >
> > > USA
> > > >
> > > > UPS, FedEx,
> > DHL Address:
> > >
> > Montana Entomology
> > Collection
> > > > Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > > > 1911 West Lincoln Street
> > > > Montana State University
> > > > Bozeman, MT 59718
> > > > USA
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > (406)
> >
> 994-4610 (voice)
> > > > (406)
> 994-6029
> > (FAX)
> >
> > > mivie at montana.edu
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> > > > Taxacom Mailing List
> > > > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > > The Taxacom Archive back to
> 1992 may
> > be searched at:
> > > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > > >
> > >
> > Injecting
> > Intellectual Liquidity
> for 29 years.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > -So
> many mites, so little time!
> > >
> > > Barry M. OConnor
> > > Professor & Curator
> > > Department of Ecology &
> Evolutionary
> > Biology
> > > University of Michigan
> > phone: 734-763-4354
> > >
> > 1109 Geddes
> Ave. fax:
> > 734-763-4080
> > >
> Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1079
> >
> e-mail: bmoc at umich.edu
> > >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> > > Taxacom Mailing List
> > >
> > Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> > > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992
> may be
> > searched at:
> > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > >
> > >
> Injecting
> > Intellectual Liquidity for
> 29 years.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Scott Thomson
> >
> Museu de Zoologia da Universidade de São
> > Paulo
> > Divisão de
> Vertebrados
> > (Herpetologia)
> > Avenida Nazaré, 481,
> > Ipiranga
> >
> 04263-000, São Paulo, SP,
> > Brasil
> > http://www.carettochelys.com
> > ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1279-2722
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> > 1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD#>
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> >
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> > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
> be
> > searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> > Injecting
> Intellectual
> > Liquidity for 29
> years.
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Scott Thomson
> Museu de Zoologia
> da Universidade de São Paulo
> Divisão de
> Vertebrados (Herpetologia)
> Avenida Nazaré,
> 481, Ipiranga
> 04263-000, São Paulo, SP,
> Brasil
> http://www.carettochelys.com
> ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1279-2722
> Lattes: *http://lattes.cnpq.br/0323517916624728*
> <https://wwws.cnpq.br/cvlattesweb/PKG_MENU.menu?f_cod=
> 1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD#>
> Skype: Faendalimas
> Skype
> Number: +55 (11) 3042-4920
> Mobile Phone: +55
> 11 974 74 9095
> _______________________________________________
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> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
> searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
> Injecting Intellectual
> Liquidity for 29 years.
>
--
Scott Thomson
Museu de Zoologia da Universidade de São Paulo
Divisão de Vertebrados (Herpetologia)
Avenida Nazaré, 481, Ipiranga
04263-000, São Paulo, SP, Brasil
http://www.carettochelys.com
ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1279-2722
Lattes: *http://lattes.cnpq.br/0323517916624728*
<https://wwws.cnpq.br/cvlattesweb/PKG_MENU.menu?f_cod=1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD#>
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