[Taxacom] Taxonomy and nomenclature deliberately confused to further an agenda
Scott Thomson
scott.thomson321 at gmail.com
Mon Aug 22 20:24:47 CDT 2016
2016
Hi Stephen,
again I actually agree with you. Maybe not as emphatically but you are
correct. I have not read the recent paper you cite, but stating that his
names are not up to scratch and hence will be ignored was not the best way
to do this. People have tried all sorts of ways, including stating that the
journal is not "simultaneous identical copies" because of various printer
errors, which is beyond the intentions of the Code.
I do not know what the actual opinions of the authors were, obviously they
did not want to use the Hoser names. They could of just left it at not
using them, as per Kaiser et al. 2013, possibly also cited the Rhodin et
al. 2014. Comment on Spracklandus. The Hoser 2013 paper is one of those
covered by the comment. In that we requested volumes 1-24 of AJH be
declared unavailable for nomenclature. Hence they are all in limbo
effectively. Until the ICZN decides.
Reality is the names will never be used. There is nothing I could do to
change that.
Cheers, Scott
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 12:33 AM, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
> wrote:
> "In the meantime, herpetology deals with it its own way"
>
> Yes, but "it's own way" is based on garbage assertions to the effect, in
> this case, that Hoser's descriptions aren't "up to scratch", so his new
> names are unavailable. That is utter NONSENSE. The most honest and open way
> to say it is "we don't like Hoser, so we choose to ignore his new names and
> describe the taxa again as new". That is the TRUTH!
>
> Stephen
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Mon, 22/8/16, Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Taxonomy and nomenclature deliberately confused to
> further an agenda
> To: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Received: Monday, 22 August, 2016, 3:14 PM
>
> I am sure Stephen will
> say I have my own agenda here. But this time I do
> not.
>
> The
> general view in herpetology is that with some 830
> nomenclatural acts at
> various taxonomic
> levels across frogs, snakes, lizards, turtles and
> crocodiles it is not in the interests of anyone
> working with herpetofauna
> to follow these
> names. They are ignored, some journals will not even
> accept
> papers that use them. They are not
> followed by ether the IUCN or CITES
> making
> it impossible to use them due to legislative frameworks that
> are
> pretty strict when it comes to
> vertebrates. This is not my viewpoint per
> se, but a general consensus across the field.
> I acknowledge the names are
> published, I
> have said so in press in the comments I was involved with
> on
> Case 3601.
>
> I get Stephen's point of view, and he is
> right. But in the year since the
> major
> comment I made on the Spracklandus case (3601) about 100
> more names
> have been produced. The issue
> does have to be dealt with. In the meantime,
> herpetology deals with it its own way.
>
> Cheers, Scott
>
> On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 9:40
> PM, Barry OConnor <bmoc at umich.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > As I recall,
> this issue was discussed ad nauseum some time back, with
> the
> > general conclusion being just as
> you say: if everyone ignores the names,
> >
> they will go away, acceptance of the Code being voluntary
> after all.
> > All the best! - Barry
> >
> > On Sun, Aug 21, 2016
> at 7:48 PM, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Stephen,
> > >
> > > While your horrified tone it totally
> justified, and your interpretation
> > >
> spot on, this is a great example for my class of the fact
> that the Code
> > is
> >
> > only followed voluntarily, and anyone is actually free
> to just go off on
> > > their own
> direction.
> > >
> >
> > This Hoser thing needs to be dealt with, it is
> festering badly as it is.
> > >
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > On
> 8/21/2016 3:52 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> > >
> > >> This is
> disturbingly unfortunate:
> > >>
> > >> Bucklitsch, Y.; Böhme, W.; Koch,
> A. 2016: Scale morphology and
> > >>
> micro-structure of monitor lizards (Squamata: Varanidae:
> Varanus spp.)
> > and
> >
> >> their allies: implications for systematics,
> ecology, and conservation.
> > >>
> Zootaxa, 4153(1): 1-192. doi: 10.11646/zootaxa.4153.1.1
> > >>
> > >> See
> p. 38: [Quote]Due to several severe shortcomings of
> Hoser’s (2013)
> > >> descriptions,
> we follow the opinion and recommendation by Kaiser et al.
> > >> (2013) and consider the genus
> name proposed by Hoser (2013) for the V.
> > >> prasinus species group
> unscientific and unavailable.[unquote]
> >
> >>
> > >> So, if an author
> considers (for whatever reason) that a previous
> > author's
> > >>
> description is inadequate in some (unspecified) way(s), then
> the new
> > name
> >
> >> can be considered to be unavailable, ignored and
> renamed as new! I must
> > >> have
> missed that in the Code!!
> > >>
> > >> Yuck,
> >
> >>
> > >> Stephen
> > >>
> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >>
> Injecting Intellectual Liquidity for 29 years.
> > >>
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> __________________________________________________
> > >
> > > Michael A.
> Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
> > >
> > > NOTE: two addresses with different
> Zip Codes depending on carriers
> > >
> > > US Post Office Address:
> > > Montana Entomology Collection
> > > Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > > PO Box 173145
> >
> > Montana State University
> > >
> Bozeman, MT 59717
> > > USA
> > >
> > > UPS, FedEx,
> DHL Address:
> > > Montana Entomology
> Collection
> > > Marsh Labs, Room 50
> > > 1911 West Lincoln Street
> > > Montana State University
> > > Bozeman, MT 59718
> > > USA
> > >
> > >
> > > (406)
> 994-4610 (voice)
> > > (406) 994-6029
> (FAX)
> > > mivie at montana.edu
> > >
> > >
> _______________________________________________
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> > > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
> be searched at:
> > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> > >
> > > Injecting
> Intellectual Liquidity for 29 years.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -So many mites, so little time!
> >
> > Barry M. OConnor
> > Professor & Curator
> > Department of Ecology & Evolutionary
> Biology
> > University of Michigan
> phone: 734-763-4354
> >
> 1109 Geddes Ave. fax:
> 734-763-4080
> > Ann Arbor, MI 48109-1079
> e-mail: bmoc at umich.edu
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
> searched at:
> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
> >
> > Injecting
> Intellectual Liquidity for 29 years.
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Scott Thomson
> Museu de Zoologia da Universidade de São
> Paulo
> Divisão de Vertebrados
> (Herpetologia)
> Avenida Nazaré, 481,
> Ipiranga
> 04263-000, São Paulo, SP,
> Brasil
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>
>
--
Scott Thomson
Museu de Zoologia da Universidade de São Paulo
Divisão de Vertebrados (Herpetologia)
Avenida Nazaré, 481, Ipiranga
04263-000, São Paulo, SP, Brasil
http://www.carettochelys.com
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