Taxacom: iguana interview

Thu May 22 19:44:04 CDT 2025

Interesting that there is no response on this very basic question.

On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 3:07?PM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:

> OK - so, if you accept that taxa can be much older than fossil calibrated
> molecular ages what data/evidence do you have for precluding the role of
> Caribbean formation and tectonics in the origin of your taxa?
>
> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 12:38?PM Majure,Lucas C <
> lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu> wrote:
>
>> Absolutely they can, but we have to base our work and hypotheses on what
>> data/evidence we have for said organismal group.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lucas C. Majure, Ph.D.
>>
>> Associate Curator
>>
>> Keeper, University of Florida Herbarium (FLAS)
>>
>> Florida Museum of Natural History
>>
>> University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.majurelab.org%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860664152%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Z3Pyxq361pfYBPYwKmZhuCijCx6KJWa4jTG6qGF3U04%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Fherbarium%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860685862%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bkqh2WAw%2FbHm1eTI0%2FdXTKLuapOK3DaKHerK%2FWLW1fU%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, May 6, 2025 at 12:23 PM
>> *To: *Majure,Lucas C <lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu>
>> *Cc: *taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> *Subject: *Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>>
>> *[External Email]*
>>
>> Assumptions of course - so do you assume groups cannot be much older than
>> their oldest fossil record? Please be explicit as it will help me
>> understand the basis for your views, including the claim that "plant groups
>> we work on are not even old enough on the continent to lend themselves for
>> this explanation, much less so in the Caribbean"
>>
>>
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 12:20?PM Majure,Lucas C <
>> lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Some of the plant groups we work on are not even old enough on the
>> continent to lend themselves for this explanation, much less so in the
>> Caribbean. Cacti are likely less than 40 million years old, for example,
>> and they didn?t make it into the Antilles until much later during the
>> Pliocene/Pleistocene. Desert formation on the continent, specifically in
>> the southern Andes, where most clades originated, also are not that old. So
>> data from continental populations goes hand in hand with the even younger
>> ages that we see on the islands.
>>
>>
>>
>> As with any fossil calibration, there are always assumptions regarding
>> relationships of the fossils and then their placement (stem vs. crown
>> placement for example) and ages based on those fossil calibrations, so we
>> have to work with what we have when trying to reconstruct the past.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lucas C. Majure, Ph.D.
>>
>> Associate Curator
>>
>> Keeper, University of Florida Herbarium (FLAS)
>>
>> Florida Museum of Natural History
>>
>> University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.majurelab.org%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860698454%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=J0B22dI0F2B%2BxtzxT4VsPN98MkW4zVGVxaQtUxAH1E4%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Fherbarium%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860711079%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=xweXK53ovgxAlyfvpgOmHGr53Vb7HGOufLuWf%2Fnce2Y%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, May 6, 2025 at 12:09 PM
>> *To: *Majure,Lucas C <lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu>
>> *Cc: *taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> *Subject: *Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>>
>> *[External Email]*
>>
>> OK - but if you used fossil calibrations, or your secondary sources used
>> fossil calibrations you run into the problem that all your molecular
>> divergence extrapolations are also minimum ages only (since fossils and
>> island ages can only provide minuman ages for taxa). You have nothing to
>> refute earlier tectonically mediated origins. Can you demonstrate otherwise?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 11:58?AM Majure,Lucas C <
>> lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu> wrote:
>>
>> This has been done in a number of different ways, including incorporating
>> fossil calibrations and using secondary calibrations from previous studies.
>> The point is, there are overwhelming data showing that much of the Greater
>> Antillean flora is quite young and must have arisen through long distance
>> dispersal before radiating within the islands. And many of these Greater
>> Antillean radiations have remained endemic specifically to those islands.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Lucas C. Majure, Ph.D.
>>
>> Associate Curator
>>
>> Keeper, University of Florida Herbarium (FLAS)
>>
>> Florida Museum of Natural History
>>
>> University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.majurelab.org%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860723177%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2Fjm2T0qUVaS8M%2Fc5G9RUYgyhLyziyKPVWFvL2qchVkE%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Fherbarium%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860735278%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8T7R04OrwdAsn9QBT1uqSLT52nMoBDzF18cm%2BKOB0Gc%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, May 6, 2025 at 11:48 AM
>> *To: *Majure,Lucas C <lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu>
>> *Cc: *taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> *Subject: *Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>>
>> *[External Email]*
>>
>> How did you calibrate the phylogenies?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 11:46?AM Majure,Lucas C <
>> lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu> wrote:
>>
>> Hi John,
>>
>>
>>
>> This assertion is based on time calibration of phylogenies that we and
>> others have published for these groups. The vast majority of plant
>> radiations in the Greater Antilles are mostly mid-Miocene and/or oftentimes
>> much younger. Yes, this also assumes that we are retrieving close-enough
>> divergence time estimates to make these assertions,  but many of these
>> radiations correspond quite well to what we know regarding mid-Miocene
>> mountain building, as well as the expansion of tropical dry forest during
>> the Pleistocene.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Lucas C. Majure, Ph.D.
>>
>> Associate Curator
>>
>> Keeper, University of Florida Herbarium (FLAS)
>>
>> Florida Museum of Natural History
>>
>> University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.majurelab.org%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860747362%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HBLWA9AWcEA94DbX4TzcMZonb1hMvDC8gFKW%2FJlUpMk%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Fherbarium%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860759515%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=sBrUFm3a3h0WVI5yhPTpXIjacmz0MzFz0Pv6hnWn8D8%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, May 6, 2025 at 10:30 AM
>> *To: *Majure,Lucas C <lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu>
>> *Cc: *taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> *Subject: *Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>>
>> *[External Email]*
>>
>> Lucas,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback. Not sure who you are referring to about the
>> Cyclura distribution being 'odd' - was not me. Agreed that the pattern is
>> found in other taxa, but your statement " certain groups of Melastomataceae
>> and so on, are geologically too young for geological processes of island
>> development to have underlain this distribution." This assertion is based
>> on what?
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 7:36?AM Majure,Lucas C <
>> lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu> wrote:
>>
>> *Cyclura* seems to be following a pattern that is incredibly common in
>> plants, with many genera, or species groups restricted to the Greater
>> Antilles. This has often led to dispersal among the islands of the Greater
>> Antilles but with no longer distance dispersal outside of the islands into
>> adjacent islands of the Caribbean or continental America. Also, essentially
>> all of these groups of plants, such as *Leptocereus* (Cactaceae),
>> certain groups of Melastomataceae and so on, are geologically too young for
>> geological processes of island development to have underlain this
>> distribution. So, I don?t find the *Cyclura* pattern odd at all. These
>> *Cyclura* also happen to eat some of the plants with this same
>> distribution, such as *Leptocereus*.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Lucas C. Majure, Ph.D.
>>
>> Associate Curator
>>
>> Keeper, University of Florida Herbarium (FLAS)
>>
>> Florida Museum of Natural History
>>
>> University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.majurelab.org%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860771951%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=k8%2FfmyoWk87y9%2BN%2F8BKVey6UTgAqMztmoCQqtk0sOUs%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Fherbarium%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860787537%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=J0uw5Z0r1T1Mb3getW4ieieeqshc7YHgfKieIQcvFEc%3D&reserved=0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> on behalf of John Grehan
>> via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>> *Date: *Tuesday, May 6, 2025 at 12:20 AM
>> *To: *
>> *Cc: *taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> *Subject: *Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>>
>> [External Email]
>>
>> All this discussion about dispersal got me to take a closer look at
>> Cyclura
>> - last time was over two decades ago. Interesting (to me) is that of the
>> 11
>> species I found listed, only two are perhaps sympatric on
>> Hispaniola.Others
>> are allopatric - barring any marginal overlap (but need to yet read over a
>> paper that may have other information). So, with all this imagined
>> rafting,
>> species land up on different places, and yet not on the mainland of
>> Central
>> and South America or North America or lesser Antilles. But makes sense in
>> a
>> tectonic context of ancestral Cyclura range being fragmented and
>> reorganized with movement of the northern edge of the Caribbean plate.
>> Happy to send my draft map to anyone interested. But if anyone knows of a
>> comprehensive published source of distributions for all species that would
>> be of interest to read. My current map is mostly from listings of islands
>> occupied.
>>
>> Cheers, John Grehan
>>
>> On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 12:46?AM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Geoff  - Got a bit lost with your reasoning. I have no problem with
>> 'long
>> > distance' dispersal or short distance dispersal. After all, taxa that
>> have
>> > a near global distribution had to disperse over a 'long distance."
>> > Dispersal certainly explains species having a geographic range. That's
>> an
>> > ecological reality. But the Fiji iguana argument is that a unique one
>> off
>> > chance dispersal event led to the origin of iguanas in Fiji. However one
>> > might imagine this as a possibility (just as I might imagine that moa
>> > ancestor swam across the Tasman Sea), imagining is not science. Science
>> is
>> > about evidence and there is simply no evidence that the origin of the
>> Fiji
>> > species are derived from rafting across the Pacific from America.
>> Cheers,
>> > John
>> >
>> > On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 12:00?AM Geoff Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Yes. Explained won't wash if you don't accept long-distance rafting is
>> >> possible.
>> >>
>> >> However (this is trivial but it's one basis of John's argument
>> technique
>> >> - change the wording of the discussion to keywords within his belief
>> >> system) ...
>> >>
>> >> (Lead author) Iguanas "reaching small islands surrounded by deep-ocean
>> >> environment" (implied initial colony-founding event) and (John Grehan)
>> >> Iguanas "establish(ing) multi island metapopulations" (implied that
>> >> movement from one population to another is and has been occurring
>> >> regularly).
>> >>
>> >> Which wording most clearly describes the likely situation?
>> >>
>> >> Geoff
>> >> --
>> >> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
>> >> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
>> >> gread at actrix.gen.nz
>> >>
>> >> ---- Original Message ----
>> >> *From*: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> >> *To*: "Geoff Read" <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
>> >> *Cc*: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> >> *Sent*: Mon, May 5, 2025, 12:33 PM
>> >> *Subject*: Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>> >>
>> >> " explained how iguana lineages from South America dispersed so easily
>> >> throughout the Caribbean & The Bahamas, with some reaching small
>> islands
>> >> surrounded by deep-ocean environment"
>> >>
>> >> It does not. It just shows that iguanas in the Caribbean can establish
>> >> multi island metapopulations. If to the contrary, interested in what
>> >> purports to be evidence.
>> >>
>> >> On Sun, May 4, 2025 at 7:42?PM Geoff Read via Taxacom <
>> >> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Missed that the article was actually from five years ago in 2020, but
>> >>> the lead author has just reposted it on social media for its
>> relevance to
>> >>> the Fiji rafting paper as that paper "explained how iguana lineages
>> from
>> >>> South America dispersed so easily throughout the Caribbean & The
>> Bahamas,
>> >>> with some reaching small islands surrounded by deep-ocean
>> environments."
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
>> >>> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
>> >>> gread at actrix.gen.nz
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> >---- Original Message ----
>> >>> >From: Geoff Read via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>> >>> >To: "John Grehan" <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> >>> >Cc: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> >>> >Sent: Mon, May 5, 2025, 11:20 AM
>> >>> >Subject: Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>> >>> >
>> >>> >For further recent news on iguana dispersal - a Bahamas trace fossil
>> >>> placed as an iguana nest burrow:
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheconversation.com%2Fwe-discovered-a-115-000-year-old-iguana-nest-fossil-in-the-bahamas-151270&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860800871%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=fyGFa0rygVSptUFPHTVXkYFyjKkbBa2IshNY9qM%2FnDc%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheconversation.com%2Fwe-discovered-a-115-000-year-old-iguana-nest-fossil-in-the-bahamas-151270&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860813737%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=b%2Fq%2FwPA0ePrssA%2BWBpzUDfA00mGQgEDzT6D6pDwj5g4%3D&reserved=0>
>> >>> >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0242935&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860825594%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=G1VeT87zFDmuvtfPH5qajQgiD5F4RB11Kj8fb6Mt9rI%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0242935&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860837140%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2yIcCiAHOybGJlq7C%2F%2FDG0yGsAp00mPKXuOtoyy5COQ%3D&reserved=0>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >"This fossil iguana burrow also establishes a minimum time for
>> iguanas
>> >>> on San Salvador during the Middle-Late Pleistocene, which can be
>> applied to
>> >>> better understanding the biogeographic dispersal of Cyclura
>> throughout The
>> >>> Bahamas during the Pleistocene and Holocene"
>> >>> >
>> >>> >They discuss alternative explanations. Always possible with trace
>> >>> fossils.
>> >>> >
>> >>> >--
>> >>> >Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
>> >>> >Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
>> >>> >gread at actrix.gen.nz
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >>---- Original Message ----
>> >>> >>From: John Grehan via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>> >>> >>To: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> >>> >>Sent: Mon, May 5, 2025, 5:47 AM
>> >>> >>Subject: Re: Taxacom: igunana interview
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>ps -  Note the interviewers reference to it sounding like a Disney
>> >>> Movie -
>> >>> >>hint of cognitive dissonance that on one hand the interviewer has to
>> >>> >>swallow this stuff given the 'authority' of the source while on the
>> >>> other
>> >>> >>some deeper common sense says it sounds pretty absurd.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>On Sun, May 4, 2025 at 1:05?PM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >>> Link below. Chance dispersal believers will love it. The content
>> is
>> >>> all
>> >>> >>> about belief, not scientific methodology at all.
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Ancient Iguanas Floated 5,000 Miles Across The Pacific
>> >>> >>> <
>> >>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencefriday.com%2Fsegments%2Figuanas-cross-the-pacific-to-fiji%2F%23segment-transcript&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860848810%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2kp9KCM06wJCR8H1U30aOOtetO1zFkKZCRXkj%2B23lHg%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencefriday.com%2Fsegments%2Figuanas-cross-the-pacific-to-fiji%2F%23segment-transcript&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860863963%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YP3wfmTgzDvHUtbZN7R3cKKMf2P2%2BR9sMB85mt%2FUC1o%3D&reserved=0>
>> >>> >
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> --
>> >>> >>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860875826%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdataÙPftO%2BH29edT8rsjpNUu72HyjAIY73M1dxD1HNF3kw%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860888806%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata”dRgNxCag4vpyHQIdueEmiCmbP%2FVyZcCZ59k8NbyxI%3D&reserved=0> (use the 'visit archived web
>> >>> site'
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>> >_______________________________________________
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>> >>> >Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years, 1987-2025.
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>> <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
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>> >>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860923483%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nP4szxoJLYQV3aS3apSxT956l0e3acEqEJatv8iX9aI%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860935546%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nKGwI0QYnBPDwZanL8PBA2gxsIiGWXJYSLam3pQEP8M%3D&reserved=0> (use the 'visit archived web site'
>> >> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860951596%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata½j7n0iFwj80o%2By9dTFyUNYd8AAqlLfCi%2Bi6HE66h3s%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860968886%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata¦Dal72wIGvLmhYnRKDoh6sjQgt09Z7Kqozq4Qd7JLQ%3D&reserved=0> (use the 'visit archived web site'
>> > link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578860987036%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2FDhejOgvhMrwxA0Kjucn9jStJmVLiKafL1%2FhYQAgtFg%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578861003813%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=j0kbgVqXrhEh8HLftFpN3TjRhfODjJRvSkvfn1fIwlE%3D&reserved=0> (use the 'visit archived web site'
>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years, 1987-2025.
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578861019429%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bWSin3fKeIysT9bOKekXwlKn90Z09k%2F1GszcI32lMyE%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578861035841%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=He4%2BQd%2B71aNltgscDiSVvw%2FrWLWZl5CsBuKwPOMiXnY%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578861049433%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0tiwtsqjxvB%2BpgTiex%2BVfC%2BrSaxlP0ag9JJnQY%2F2pNw%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578861061239%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=g95DYZaNPJU%2BQNgd%2FunfEecG25CNJI250yASrYcDQsY%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578861072918%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=VSC7f8mCTPJRpsm5jOgaDMqkHyAsnjIyyev3Ak2hnQw%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
>> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>>
>
>
> --
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578861084912%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LlkkHE63742NV9rkGOJSPEwktO2eydhdcFj1J%2FjYd7k%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>

-- 
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9df1cc6a293f4341521c08dd99930130%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638835578861100163%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RG3489TBaVeGGAEWRucsjn5VXnRJd6NkEgZ4upcTSu8%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.