Taxacom: iguana interview

Tue May 6 14:07:13 CDT 2025

OK - so, if you accept that taxa can be much older than fossil calibrated
molecular ages what data/evidence do you have for precluding the role of
Caribbean formation and tectonics in the origin of your taxa?

On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 12:38?PM Majure,Lucas C <
lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu> wrote:

> Absolutely they can, but we have to base our work and hypotheses on what
> data/evidence we have for said organismal group.
>
>
>
> Lucas C. Majure, Ph.D.
>
> Associate Curator
>
> Keeper, University of Florida Herbarium (FLAS)
>
> Florida Museum of Natural History
>
> University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.majurelab.org%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722227279%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=kaSMLlJ2ghMlKmleribp1XUj%2B17exHnQzyVAItZvR0w%3D&reserved=0
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Fherbarium%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722262557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Rr9IQCpPqeR1unt%2FOFKuTZswo8XINXSjcfwzQD2uMHo%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, May 6, 2025 at 12:23 PM
> *To: *Majure,Lucas C <lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu>
> *Cc: *taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>
> *[External Email]*
>
> Assumptions of course - so do you assume groups cannot be much older than
> their oldest fossil record? Please be explicit as it will help me
> understand the basis for your views, including the claim that "plant groups
> we work on are not even old enough on the continent to lend themselves for
> this explanation, much less so in the Caribbean"
>
>
>
> John
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 12:20?PM Majure,Lucas C <
> lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu> wrote:
>
> Some of the plant groups we work on are not even old enough on the
> continent to lend themselves for this explanation, much less so in the
> Caribbean. Cacti are likely less than 40 million years old, for example,
> and they didn?t make it into the Antilles until much later during the
> Pliocene/Pleistocene. Desert formation on the continent, specifically in
> the southern Andes, where most clades originated, also are not that old. So
> data from continental populations goes hand in hand with the even younger
> ages that we see on the islands.
>
>
>
> As with any fossil calibration, there are always assumptions regarding
> relationships of the fossils and then their placement (stem vs. crown
> placement for example) and ages based on those fossil calibrations, so we
> have to work with what we have when trying to reconstruct the past.
>
>
>
> Lucas C. Majure, Ph.D.
>
> Associate Curator
>
> Keeper, University of Florida Herbarium (FLAS)
>
> Florida Museum of Natural History
>
> University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.majurelab.org%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722275459%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdatapqsIKs7IZEm7tLmkxIRqG5U3%2F93%2FyP%2Fz5qErObSUHY%3D&reserved=0
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Fherbarium%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722288419%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=InHRUukhsScaIj2SreExl2FyYRhs7mpj3OcGEl31TKc%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, May 6, 2025 at 12:09 PM
> *To: *Majure,Lucas C <lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu>
> *Cc: *taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>
> *[External Email]*
>
> OK - but if you used fossil calibrations, or your secondary sources used
> fossil calibrations you run into the problem that all your molecular
> divergence extrapolations are also minimum ages only (since fossils and
> island ages can only provide minuman ages for taxa). You have nothing to
> refute earlier tectonically mediated origins. Can you demonstrate otherwise?
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 11:58?AM Majure,Lucas C <
> lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu> wrote:
>
> This has been done in a number of different ways, including incorporating
> fossil calibrations and using secondary calibrations from previous studies.
> The point is, there are overwhelming data showing that much of the Greater
> Antillean flora is quite young and must have arisen through long distance
> dispersal before radiating within the islands. And many of these Greater
> Antillean radiations have remained endemic specifically to those islands.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Lucas C. Majure, Ph.D.
>
> Associate Curator
>
> Keeper, University of Florida Herbarium (FLAS)
>
> Florida Museum of Natural History
>
> University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.majurelab.org%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722301591%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=i1hyUCfNS0VZPz12KahjsJSSKccp981%2B1EpKHSdiuIs%3D&reserved=0
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Fherbarium%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722325365%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=aXXlvSxNNaL84lzilC8OcmH5BIEd%2FIN%2BVvYjjpSl9Zw%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, May 6, 2025 at 11:48 AM
> *To: *Majure,Lucas C <lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu>
> *Cc: *taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>
> *[External Email]*
>
> How did you calibrate the phylogenies?
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 11:46?AM Majure,Lucas C <
> lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu> wrote:
>
> Hi John,
>
>
>
> This assertion is based on time calibration of phylogenies that we and
> others have published for these groups. The vast majority of plant
> radiations in the Greater Antilles are mostly mid-Miocene and/or oftentimes
> much younger. Yes, this also assumes that we are retrieving close-enough
> divergence time estimates to make these assertions,  but many of these
> radiations correspond quite well to what we know regarding mid-Miocene
> mountain building, as well as the expansion of tropical dry forest during
> the Pleistocene.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Lucas C. Majure, Ph.D.
>
> Associate Curator
>
> Keeper, University of Florida Herbarium (FLAS)
>
> Florida Museum of Natural History
>
> University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.majurelab.org%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722349669%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pd3tuH8waluQmHuS%2F9IJwTWqvMDnI86Zx%2Ba91OHyOzI%3D&reserved=0
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Fherbarium%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722362315%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=eyNibluymh2wDRV6NLo55p8wZUw0CJtu9mjMKhzqfFA%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Tuesday, May 6, 2025 at 10:30 AM
> *To: *Majure,Lucas C <lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu>
> *Cc: *taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>
> *[External Email]*
>
> Lucas,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the feedback. Not sure who you are referring to about the
> Cyclura distribution being 'odd' - was not me. Agreed that the pattern is
> found in other taxa, but your statement " certain groups of Melastomataceae
> and so on, are geologically too young for geological processes of island
> development to have underlain this distribution." This assertion is based
> on what?
>
>
>
> Cheers, John
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 7:36?AM Majure,Lucas C <
> lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu> wrote:
>
> *Cyclura* seems to be following a pattern that is incredibly common in
> plants, with many genera, or species groups restricted to the Greater
> Antilles. This has often led to dispersal among the islands of the Greater
> Antilles but with no longer distance dispersal outside of the islands into
> adjacent islands of the Caribbean or continental America. Also, essentially
> all of these groups of plants, such as *Leptocereus* (Cactaceae), certain
> groups of Melastomataceae and so on, are geologically too young for
> geological processes of island development to have underlain this
> distribution. So, I don?t find the *Cyclura* pattern odd at all. These
> *Cyclura* also happen to eat some of the plants with this same
> distribution, such as *Leptocereus*.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Lucas C. Majure, Ph.D.
>
> Associate Curator
>
> Keeper, University of Florida Herbarium (FLAS)
>
> Florida Museum of Natural History
>
> University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.majurelab.org%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722375211%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata¼ErWzsEr92n2enNbe6Mr5YyIdjrFy8zwneLkgHfhC8%3D&reserved=0
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridamuseum.ufl.edu%2Fherbarium%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722387391%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HiP87EYCSi8mMq%2B164n8WSMgn3Dg5LRDn2lUpye8nFU%3D&reserved=0
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> on behalf of John Grehan
> via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> *Date: *Tuesday, May 6, 2025 at 12:20 AM
> *To: *
> *Cc: *taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>
> [External Email]
>
> All this discussion about dispersal got me to take a closer look at Cyclura
> - last time was over two decades ago. Interesting (to me) is that of the 11
> species I found listed, only two are perhaps sympatric on Hispaniola.Others
> are allopatric - barring any marginal overlap (but need to yet read over a
> paper that may have other information). So, with all this imagined rafting,
> species land up on different places, and yet not on the mainland of Central
> and South America or North America or lesser Antilles. But makes sense in a
> tectonic context of ancestral Cyclura range being fragmented and
> reorganized with movement of the northern edge of the Caribbean plate.
> Happy to send my draft map to anyone interested. But if anyone knows of a
> comprehensive published source of distributions for all species that would
> be of interest to read. My current map is mostly from listings of islands
> occupied.
>
> Cheers, John Grehan
>
> On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 12:46?AM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Geoff  - Got a bit lost with your reasoning. I have no problem with 'long
> > distance' dispersal or short distance dispersal. After all, taxa that
> have
> > a near global distribution had to disperse over a 'long distance."
> > Dispersal certainly explains species having a geographic range. That's an
> > ecological reality. But the Fiji iguana argument is that a unique one off
> > chance dispersal event led to the origin of iguanas in Fiji. However one
> > might imagine this as a possibility (just as I might imagine that moa
> > ancestor swam across the Tasman Sea), imagining is not science. Science
> is
> > about evidence and there is simply no evidence that the origin of the
> Fiji
> > species are derived from rafting across the Pacific from America. Cheers,
> > John
> >
> > On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 12:00?AM Geoff Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> >
> >> Yes. Explained won't wash if you don't accept long-distance rafting is
> >> possible.
> >>
> >> However (this is trivial but it's one basis of John's argument technique
> >> - change the wording of the discussion to keywords within his belief
> >> system) ...
> >>
> >> (Lead author) Iguanas "reaching small islands surrounded by deep-ocean
> >> environment" (implied initial colony-founding event) and (John Grehan)
> >> Iguanas "establish(ing) multi island metapopulations" (implied that
> >> movement from one population to another is and has been occurring
> >> regularly).
> >>
> >> Which wording most clearly describes the likely situation?
> >>
> >> Geoff
> >> --
> >> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> >> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> >> gread at actrix.gen.nz
> >>
> >> ---- Original Message ----
> >> *From*: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> >> *To*: "Geoff Read" <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
> >> *Cc*: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> >> *Sent*: Mon, May 5, 2025, 12:33 PM
> >> *Subject*: Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
> >>
> >> " explained how iguana lineages from South America dispersed so easily
> >> throughout the Caribbean & The Bahamas, with some reaching small islands
> >> surrounded by deep-ocean environment"
> >>
> >> It does not. It just shows that iguanas in the Caribbean can establish
> >> multi island metapopulations. If to the contrary, interested in what
> >> purports to be evidence.
> >>
> >> On Sun, May 4, 2025 at 7:42?PM Geoff Read via Taxacom <
> >> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Missed that the article was actually from five years ago in 2020, but
> >>> the lead author has just reposted it on social media for its relevance
> to
> >>> the Fiji rafting paper as that paper "explained how iguana lineages
> from
> >>> South America dispersed so easily throughout the Caribbean & The
> Bahamas,
> >>> with some reaching small islands surrounded by deep-ocean
> environments."
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> >>> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> >>> gread at actrix.gen.nz
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >---- Original Message ----
> >>> >From: Geoff Read via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >>> >To: "John Grehan" <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> >>> >Cc: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> >>> >Sent: Mon, May 5, 2025, 11:20 AM
> >>> >Subject: Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
> >>> >
> >>> >For further recent news on iguana dispersal - a Bahamas trace fossil
> >>> placed as an iguana nest burrow:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheconversation.com%2Fwe-discovered-a-115-000-year-old-iguana-nest-fossil-in-the-bahamas-151270&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722399932%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LSgeER4vK2%2Fjpk1dcAUPt6sJJF%2F6z5D%2F6tK5cCuoEDo%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheconversation.com%2Fwe-discovered-a-115-000-year-old-iguana-nest-fossil-in-the-bahamas-151270&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722413422%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BDOBbdmTc5jbFZQV9YhLlf1s8O8eZBlwhZbrupw9%2F4o%3D&reserved=0>
> >>> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0242935&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722426329%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=iaZ7UDHAgxoon8afhT0jlDKU6ubf9J12YgYkt%2FrL2fs%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0242935&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722438996%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tjUdx%2FrlVTLrZ5VhxmOuZSwbqLQsK3THbHG4BP5DXpg%3D&reserved=0>
> >>> >
> >>> >"This fossil iguana burrow also establishes a minimum time for iguanas
> >>> on San Salvador during the Middle-Late Pleistocene, which can be
> applied to
> >>> better understanding the biogeographic dispersal of Cyclura throughout
> The
> >>> Bahamas during the Pleistocene and Holocene"
> >>> >
> >>> >They discuss alternative explanations. Always possible with trace
> >>> fossils.
> >>> >
> >>> >--
> >>> >Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> >>> >Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> >>> >gread at actrix.gen.nz
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >>---- Original Message ----
> >>> >>From: John Grehan via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >>> >>To: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> >>> >>Sent: Mon, May 5, 2025, 5:47 AM
> >>> >>Subject: Re: Taxacom: igunana interview
> >>> >>
> >>> >>ps -  Note the interviewers reference to it sounding like a Disney
> >>> Movie -
> >>> >>hint of cognitive dissonance that on one hand the interviewer has to
> >>> >>swallow this stuff given the 'authority' of the source while on the
> >>> other
> >>> >>some deeper common sense says it sounds pretty absurd.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>On Sun, May 4, 2025 at 1:05?PM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Link below. Chance dispersal believers will love it. The content is
> >>> all
> >>> >>> about belief, not scientific methodology at all.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Ancient Iguanas Floated 5,000 Miles Across The Pacific
> >>> >>> <
> >>>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencefriday.com%2Fsegments%2Figuanas-cross-the-pacific-to-fiji%2F%23segment-transcript&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722452773%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6mlpx9s%2BQ07nIe8RGTPDIzU8cBuE98bR1eRp8JD8RSY%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencefriday.com%2Fsegments%2Figuanas-cross-the-pacific-to-fiji%2F%23segment-transcript&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722465299%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata/qQqS0%2FrOjV1AILijchfk4%2F504z9y%2FakHiGwU69QNg%3D&reserved=0>
> >>> >
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> --
> >>> >>>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722478693%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tLWQFXFgpn1mbs47DeHFg2XDFAT%2FmrMCMDh8%2FdVGeEI%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722497593%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pb22NIbHXAGj31c6yyEynezrwTBbRVFhQBnEWuBSAhc%3D&reserved=0> (use the 'visit archived web
> >>> site'
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >_______________________________________________
> >>> >Taxacom Mailing List
> >>> >
> >>> >Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years, 1987-2025.
> >>> >
> >>> >Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >>> >For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >>>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722518060%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lwkLC%2B9zlQjOwE%2BQNKXxxHjKOcdFrQpTvvNEnb8XRnI%3D&reserved=0
> <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
> >>> >You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Taxacom Mailing List
> >>>
> >>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years, 1987-2025.
> >>>
> >>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> >>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> >>>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722537971%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8nMiD7QEE1JCfZR0QFCZ4%2FhiiNpbwdLX%2Bo%2BBy94qD34%3D&reserved=0
> <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
> >>> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722554883%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=x6ejeQ5FervPaHpu514rGOLhPjpGvjXXoOu6DHdDvfk%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722571404%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=TN2dG2ZZzwTxe2zu0B45N3d0eE3bcVuu%2F39FXFuEHW4%3D&reserved=0> (use the 'visit archived web site'
> >> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722587825%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SACiLhVJ32IgC4J0ROf860t%2FJIfoiOmORrghAtBcF2k%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722602639%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3Nz3w1P02q%2FjyBJciY3I0Zgy0nS%2BglwGPlm1nz2O6zE%3D&reserved=0> (use the 'visit archived web site'
> > link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> >
>
>
> --
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722615743%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=n5qoOW%2Fb6zubqnfoCBJhOQ53EcibQ%2BkcSDc2X7I7HkI%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722629324%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Lx0aBtXwfLPDbEAPhWI7qZIObZXC0SqwSteeilI1jKw%3D&reserved=0> (use the 'visit archived web site'
> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years, 1987-2025.
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.ku.edu%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722645289%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=FWdX%2FBmeIgpnJnBPdI9R7CvwyPYYeAbHdmOY2MxW8gQ%3D&reserved=0
> <https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom>
> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722660792%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdataHZC%2B%2BsI75zy77UtkORfY5n0%2BAwmeLdbxqVFCkYPqFw%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722674084%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RnLkoJgZnVTjrMgkY4tgWTjtmv20e%2F%2BJG3IHDclG86I%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722686555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=kw5U81mlJtS%2Fe6xy76XFbYctJmkos%2FR2AM5SlWtHZbE%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722698826%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=uO549NN2jN2NZP4HkYWsH4eQ2M01KB39SHvmgonpU0U%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
> link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
>

-- 
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C009385af4e8a42f54fea08dd8cd14ab0%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821552722710782%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Tm6%2FVdkUjAOQ9wBI%2F6euHyLzgX8TZGuKrB5EFcrZOq8%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.