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Taxacom: Mandatory ending correction after 226 years of wrong usage - the Dasytes case

Michael Heads m.j.heads at gmail.com
Wed Jan 29 18:37:58 CST 2025 

I was trying to figure out why the authors formerly treated Dasytes as
masculine, and why Monotes is still treated as masculine.
Here's something from GreekPod on -tes as a masculine ending (it isn't
listed in the list of feminine endings):
*-ης*      Examples: ο λογιστής (*o loyistís*) meaning “the accountant”; ο
υπολογιστής (*o ipoloyistís*) meaning “the computer”; ο πελάτης (*o pelátis*)
meaning “the customer”; ο μαθητής (*o mathitís*) meaning “the student.”

Following the argument for Dasytes being feminine, should Monotes be
treated as feminine? Or does it depend on the root rather than the suffix?

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 1:09 PM Douglas Yanega <dyanega at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 1/29/25 3:29 PM, Michael Heads wrote:
>
> You are probably right. But the only other name ending in -otes I could
> think of was Monotes, formed in the same way, meaning uniqueness, and it's
> always treated as masculine.  Were the botanists and zoologists going from
> this (from Wiktionary):
>
> *-της* •
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2FWiktionary%3AAncient_Greek_transliteration&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880456115%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=7AcFa1tb50oM6vkOhBJ%2F06uc0haCSzjYi4OnCXPx10U%3D&reserved=0>
>  (-tēs) m (*genitive* *-του
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2F-%25CF%2584%25CE%25BF%25CF%2585%23Ancient_Greek&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880470443%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ruiMJ%2FjbofKhnhhvLAGoHkmNL6DEVmdE%2FTCJA%2FIxKQg%3D&reserved=0>*); *first
> declension
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2FAppendix%3AAncient_Greek_first_declension&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880478367%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=NTwmHGPMHyvbu3gIpmnaDV9Gp%2FzhPna471CR3xmxf7Q%3D&reserved=0>*
>
>    1. Added to noun stems to form masculine nouns of the person concerned
>    with a thing
>    2. Added to verb stems to form masculine agent nouns: -er
>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2F-er%23English&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880486273%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=TFmmyIOBP0P9jxTxCuspLunJp1OYdehqABekY1km0FI%3D&reserved=0>
>    3. Added to place names to form masculine demonyms
>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2Fdemonym%23English&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880493898%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=taPRjjAifx636vt4cT5gfdP3NQDiDiC0hWAxp%2BQNifk%3D&reserved=0>: -ian
>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2F-ian%23English&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880502550%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cEmGEFeKVsuV0xTtAboVVt0SPEdU4oS7qNz1qm2ummc%3D&reserved=0>
>
> LOL - you're cheating, perhaps not deliberately.
>
> The page you're citing in Wiktionary is this one:
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2F-%25CF%2584%25CE%25B7%25CF%2582%23Ancient_Greek&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880511676%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=UMEPw5tlQGqTxTAJDpVgXv9HsOLkV%2F5rjueiPEAGxQc%3D&reserved=0
>
> Which gives two definitions, and each with a different gender.
>
> You're citing definition #2.
>
> Definition #1 reads as follows:
> Suffix [edit
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fw%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3D-%25CF%2584%25CE%25B7%25CF%2582%26action%3Dedit%26section%3D5&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880519384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=TAB1bT5pT1SkkVl9AzZwxQyqTWYRPHOdCEpdbZ3m8UA%3D&reserved=0>
> ]
>
> *-της* •
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2FWiktionary%3AAncient_Greek_transliteration&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880526944%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=RbC38t%2FPAG%2FEcI4ZblLJqIaFjdoYKIOOqV7ZyAfycKE%3D&reserved=0>
> (-tēs) f (*genitive* *-τητος
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fw%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3D-%25CF%2584%25CE%25B7%25CF%2584%25CE%25BF%25CF%2582%26action%3Dedit%26redlink%3D1&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880534928%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=o%2FLgt0TV0uq2Vvak57pbo9tLgQWpzy5Uw0E6ph7iQ1E%3D&reserved=0>*
> ); *third declension
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2FAppendix%3AAncient_Greek_third_declension&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880542551%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nTUv3Exkuo6w099%2BmABMrol5C3bcN9FMwpxNzFhR8qo%3D&reserved=0>*
> (Attic <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAttic_Greek&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880550112%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=QKBOLeVJqybic8mc5ANPzpUMKk0IgOnl9r3HoeGRL8Q%3D&reserved=0>)
>
>    1. Forms nouns representing a state of being
>
> And THIS is the definition that applies to "dasytes", which is the state
> of being covered in hairs (dasys + tes).
>
> The endings "-es" and "-tes" in Greek DO NOT have fixed gender. Some are
> masculine, some are feminine, and not all of them are suffixes.
>
> In Greek, about the only *suffixes* that appear to have fixed gender are
> "-e" and "-is" (from -ις, *not* -ης), both feminine.
>
> As for Mike Ivie's question:
>
> "Define "the Dictionary" please.  I can write a dictionary, can we use
> that dictionary?"
>
> The Code DOES define which dictionary, e.g., for Greek:
>
> "30.1.2. a genus-group name that is or ends in a Greek word
> transliterated into Latin without other changes takes the gender given for
> that word *in standard Greek dictionaries*;"
>
> Unless the dictionary you write is considered a standard Greek dictionary,
> it's not an accepted source. Note that the entries in Perseus and
> Wiktionary both cite which standard Greek dictionaries they are based on,
> and when they cite standard Greek dictionaries, they do comply with the
> Code.
>
> e.g., in Wiktionary, the sources for dasytes being feminine are
>
>    - “δασύτης
>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perseus.tufts.edu%2Fhopper%2Ftext%3Fdoc%3DPerseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Ddasu%2Fths&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880557795%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Am4YCcoHGiDcf6Oj9luyLAMaR4uyyji2ywjBdMmxBj4%3D&reserved=0>”,
>    in Liddell & Scott (1940) A Greek–English Lexicon
>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FA_Greek-English_Lexicon&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880565931%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=cYSaY7Mj0Y%2Bd6qOKLl3CDWDXAEUohPvveasvVlJPTWM%3D&reserved=0>, Oxford:
>    Clarendon Press
>    - δασύτης
>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fstream%2FBaillyDictionnaireGrecFrancais%2FBailly_DictionnaireGrecFrancais%23page%2Fn432%2Fmode%2F1up&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880574008%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bxyQFANuE%2BmXls1CRfwex5Ky9%2FODuZRM74hSAf1%2BAWE%3D&reserved=0>
>     in Bailly, Anatole (1935) Le Grand Bailly: Dictionnaire grec-français
>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2Ffr%3ADictionnaire_grec-fran%25C3%25A7ais_&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880581738%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=pYMyG1VWqIS15KLNBALG%2BvpYYV9O9QpDz7Wuq8M%2BmjA%3D&reserved=0(Bailly)>,
>    Paris: Hachette
>    - δασύτης
>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdge.cchs.csic.es%2Fxdge%2F%25CE%25B4%25CE%25B1%25CF%2583%25CF%258D%25CF%2584%25CE%25B7%25CF%2582&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880589937%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6S%2BmoncSwVTQfqUlXv67m%2BwSHyPdnr4fk8GR0jfeoNc%3D&reserved=0>
>     in the *Diccionario Griego–Español
>    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDiccionario_Griego%25E2%2580%2593Espa%25C3%25B1ol&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880597823%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=SsgqBCKNnYZR1sOJuv%2Fwb6SQhmFMSweqyiQ8%2FwijvYw%3D&reserved=0>*
>     en línea (2006–2025)
>
> There is no question that the genus name Dasytes is feminine under Article
> 30.1.2. It shouldn't take very long to change the entries in Wikispecies,
> Wikipedia, BugGuide, and iNaturalist to comply, because those sources are
> possible to update when necessary.
>
> Peace,
>
> --
> Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology       Entomology Research Museum
> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314  voicemail:951-827-8704
> FaceBook: Doug Yanega (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
>              https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffaculty.ucr.edu%2F~heraty%2Fyanega.html&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880605517%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YupHgRUYkW2Iwxyf40ekQaiRMYUQ8%2FIXUAPICkxB450%3D&reserved=0
>   "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
>         is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
>
>

-- 
Dunedin, New Zealand.

My books:

*Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC, Boca
Raton FL. 2017.
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*Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge University
Press, Cambridge. 2014. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880620734%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6iqwPYv5UatlLeb7hrfptDxOnk094gEqIcjBP1oGAxs%3D&reserved=0


*Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California Press,
Berkeley. 2012. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4da9372437934359c11a08dd40c65fe6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737943880628137%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=F73Z9%2Fx4g6u73QKfBzsntZM%2BZqiJoEELALwLLj58T2s%3D&reserved=0


*Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University Press,
New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
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