Taxacom: Mandatory ending correction after 226 years of wrong usage - the Dasytes case

Wed Jan 29 18:09:06 CST 2025

On 1/29/25 3:29 PM, Michael Heads wrote:
>
>
>         You are probably right. But the only other name ending in
>         -otes I could think of was Monotes, formed in the same way,
>         meaning uniqueness, and it's always treated as masculine. Were
>         the botanists and zoologists going from this (from Wiktionary):
>
> *-της* • 
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2FWiktionary%3AAncient_Greek_transliteration&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449488688%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qGT8p8Qa2yEsKsnHse36stnWeSx5DbPwk%2BtQTQKV%2B6A%3D&reserved=0> (-tēs) 
> m (/genitive/ *-του 
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2F-%25CF%2584%25CE%25BF%25CF%2585%23Ancient_Greek&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449506573%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=nEcC6EvWqioKbuWRtFjV4VFqPWK34TSGHcuDO%2F3vG7w%3D&reserved=0>*); 
> /first declension 
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2FAppendix%3AAncient_Greek_first_declension&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449515576%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=a8AU6eBJltnMFkndQ%2FSONdyM14iqaguo9eBwCd6T4xQ%3D&reserved=0>/
>
>  1. Added to noun stems to form masculine nouns of the person
>     concerned with a thing
>  2. Added to verb stems to form masculine agent nouns: -er
>     <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2F-er%23English&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449524564%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6bqma%2BgnvI%2FnmhzI7REMC9R834yAayL1K2TapE%2F8MlI%3D&reserved=0>
>  3. Added to place names to form masculine demonyms
>     <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2Fdemonym%23English&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449533114%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=1aFZiP0FTHGthqjHJoekWmSiEHsGwEcJq0IJ5ErCTus%3D&reserved=0>: -ian
>     <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2F-ian%23English&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449541780%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=HGaUTRafGBTla%2F9RtZLefuwgOBo7cEqpzI9jicev968%3D&reserved=0>
>
LOL - you're cheating, perhaps not deliberately.

The page you're citing in Wiktionary is this one:

https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2F-%25CF%2584%25CE%25B7%25CF%2582%23Ancient_Greek&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449550599%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BeKswWaDI%2BNftbnUsiunv%2B7gJ%2FTXB%2F8SL6EUKFM8uFE%3D&reserved=0

Which gives two definitions, and each with a different gender.

You're citing definition #2.

Definition #1 reads as follows:

        Suffix

[edit 
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fw%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3D-%25CF%2584%25CE%25B7%25CF%2582%26action%3Dedit%26section%3D5&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449559400%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wWJA8NDOdAPmQKu2zQnJj%2FWRNcv31nOH%2BzpHNf6POn0%3D&reserved=0>]

*-της*• 
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2FWiktionary%3AAncient_Greek_transliteration&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449568327%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=unoq5MqL7wvwIRL6B2VXMeadyNi%2FE2F03OzMLjeZTRw%3D&reserved=0>(-tēs) 
f(/genitive/*-τητος 
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fw%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3D-%25CF%2584%25CE%25B7%25CF%2584%25CE%25BF%25CF%2582%26action%3Dedit%26redlink%3D1&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449577079%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bcnLslK%2FHwi733P00GierJEjSMQJfw12HW56Nd2jj%2FE%3D&reserved=0>*);/third 
declension 
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wiktionary.org%2Fwiki%2FAppendix%3AAncient_Greek_third_declension&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449589138%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=BbnhcpMeAAbmNpAZjkQJFk7UNvOXD3nskM5CaF1rrnM%3D&reserved=0>/(Attic 
<https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAttic_Greek&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449602341%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Dfoy8Y%2BrXcjDR6WPzwGiQ%2BOLePx5T6EVFxfCJ4UdYhs%3D&reserved=0>)

 1. Forms nouns representing a state of being

And THIS is the definition that applies to "dasytes", which is the state 
of being covered in hairs (dasys + tes).

The endings "-es" and "-tes" in Greek DO NOT have fixed gender. Some are 
masculine, some are feminine, and not all of them are suffixes.

In Greek, about the only *suffixes* that appear to have fixed gender are 
"-e" and "-is" (from -ις, *not* -ης), both feminine.

As for Mike Ivie's question:

"Define "the Dictionary" please.  I can write a dictionary, can we use 
that dictionary?"

The Code DOES define which dictionary, e.g., for Greek:

"30.1.2. a genus-group name that is or ends in a Greek word 
transliterated into Latin without other changes takes the gender given 
for that word *in standard Greek dictionaries*;"

Unless the dictionary you write is considered a standard Greek 
dictionary, it's not an accepted source. Note that the entries in 
Perseus and Wiktionary both cite which standard Greek dictionaries they 
are based on, and when they cite standard Greek dictionaries, they do 
comply with the Code.

e.g., in Wiktionary, the sources for dasytes being feminine are

  * “δασύτης
    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perseus.tufts.edu%2Fhopper%2Ftext%3Fdoc%3DPerseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Ddasu%2Fths&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449614627%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wiu2iREls0AlxzM7wKJt3PnTS4V%2BTqV3ncL8rb0Mlks%3D&reserved=0>”,
    inLiddell & Scott (1940)A Greek–English Lexicon
    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FA_Greek-English_Lexicon&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449626330%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BU7NAag%2FeUWY4LF6hmLMcxqrrf74FuK9ADdQQnkF0TI%3D&reserved=0>, Oxford:
    Clarendon Press
  * δασύτης
    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Farchive.org%2Fstream%2FBaillyDictionnaireGrecFrancais%2FBailly_DictionnaireGrecFrancais%23page%2Fn432%2Fmode%2F1up&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449641397%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hhmQwkN8EEGAtPM1Zb%2FzzsQMIt4k9ccjdvFFbt4uiRc%3D&reserved=0>inBailly,
    Anatole (1935)Le Grand Bailly: Dictionnaire grec-français
    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2Ffr%3ADictionnaire_grec-fran%25C3%25A7ais_&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449651752%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JO1%2FBhU6ezGhN0oEn6HE%2Fp%2FO6EgT37W%2BBY4lrBSJ6yg%3D&reserved=0(Bailly)>,
    Paris: Hachette
  * δασύτης
    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdge.cchs.csic.es%2Fxdge%2F%25CE%25B4%25CE%25B1%25CF%2583%25CF%258D%25CF%2584%25CE%25B7%25CF%2582&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449662452%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wNJQXRW6ym9RcuNw1g6JUo4VkM8csToO5NcJ44hayu4%3D&reserved=0>in
    the/Diccionario Griego–Español
    <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FDiccionario_Griego%25E2%2580%2593Espa%25C3%25B1ol&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449671841%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=rokSEYbJ2%2BCCRJmXRogEq2KfLCEfY40IzcFHW3QAjM4%3D&reserved=0>/en
    línea (2006–2025)

There is no question that the genus name Dasytes is feminine under 
Article 30.1.2. It shouldn't take very long to change the entries in 
Wikispecies, Wikipedia, BugGuide, and iNaturalist to comply, because 
those sources are possible to update when necessary.

Peace,

-- 
Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology       Entomology Research Museum
Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314  voicemail:951-827-8704
FaceBook: Doug Yanega (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
              https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffaculty.ucr.edu%2F~heraty%2Fyanega.html&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Ccd4c4b52a6ab4b2378a908dd40c25147%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638737926449681066%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C60000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=934gIjlkU8OzgvMj4TlZWGaVKBTaRuzh8d8FOfwo0fw%3D&reserved=0
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