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Taxacom: Latin

Mark D. Scherz mark.scherz at gmail.com
Tue Jul 4 02:26:34 CDT 2023 

See Article 11.3. Derivation and Recommendation 11A

11.3 Derivation
Providing it meets the requirements of this Chapter, a name may be *a word*
in or derived from Latin, Greek *or any other language* (even one with no
alphabet), or be formed from such a word. It may be an arbitrary
combination of letters providing this is formed to be used as a word.


Recommendation 11A. Use of vernacular names. An unmodified vernacular word
should not be used as a scientific name. Appropriate latinization is the
preferred means of formation of names from vernacular words.


These apply to all names, including species-group names; there is nothing
that supersedes it in Chapter 7, as far as I know. And I myself have
designated species group names as arbitrary combinations of letters (*Mini
ature, Mini mum, *and* Mini scule*)
Use of an English adjective is certainly possible, even though it could be
considered against Recommendation 11A.

Cheers,
Mark


*- - -Dr Mark D. Scherz, PhD (Dr rer. nat.)*
*Curator of Herpetology & **Assistant Professor of Vertebrate Zoology*
Natural History Museum of Denmark, University of Copenhagen
IUCN SSC Amphibian Specialist Group
IUCN SSC Chameleon Specialist Group
<mark.scherz at gmail.com>
Skype: mark.scherz
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On Tue, 4 Jul 2023 at 09:14, Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <
taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:

>  So, Valéry, does the botanical code allow English adjectives, treated as
> if they were Latin? Could you name a plant Aus redleaf?
>     On Tuesday, 4 July 2023 at 07:08:37 pm NZST, Valery MALECOT via
> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>  Dear colleagues
>
> I assume that Annemarie was refering to Appendix B General recommandation
> 6 : "The scientific names of genus- or species-group taxa should be printed
> in a type-face (font) different from that used in the text; such names are
> usually printed in italics, which should not be used for names of higher
> taxa", while according to ICZN Art 11.3 " a name may be a word in or
> derived from Latin, Greek or any other language (even one with no
> alphabet), or be formed from such a word. It may be an arbitrary
> combination of letters providing this is formed to be used as a word."
>
> From a french botanical view and after reading the various exchanges,
> there seems to be some mis-conceptions about what means Latin in the Codes.
> In the botanical Code it is written (Principle V) "Scientific names of
> taxonomic groups are treated as Latin regardless of their derivation",
> which means that words used in scientific names belongs to Latin language,
> whatever their construction/etymology/origins, and follows Latin grammar
> (particularly gender agreement if of adjectival form). But the sames words,
> if used outside a scientific name may not follow Latin grammar. However,
> This treatment as Latin, implies also a distinct typographic treatement in
> the publications, the use of italics to tell appart these foreign language
> words from the remaining of the text.
>
> Sincerely yours
> Valéry
> ----- Mail original -----
> De: "Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom" <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> À: "Annemarie OHLER" <annemarie.ohler at mnhn.fr>
> Cc: "taxacom" <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> Envoyé: Mardi 4 Juillet 2023 08:54:15
> Objet: Re: Taxacom: Latin
>
> So Annemarie, what is the relevance of your link?
>     On Tuesday, 4 July 2023 at 06:32:46 pm NZST, Annemarie OHLER <
> annemarie.ohler at mnhn.fr> wrote:
>
>  See: https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iczn.org%2Fthe-code%2Fthe-code-online%2F%3Farticle%3D5&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C75d1c0d4e2134134fa2a08db7c601607%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638240524374181285%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=qtlalgri7%2BvLgKBwqtLZKwnhsWFEJ5p3uNVU18O%2FVWY%3D&reserved=0
>
> ----- Mail original -----
> De: "Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom" <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> À: taxacom at lists.ku.edu, "Glenn Shea" <glenn.shea at sydney.edu.au>
> Envoyé: Mardi 4 Juillet 2023 08:26:20
> Objet: Re: Taxacom: Latin
>
> It seems that there may be a problem with the current code, in that it may
> not explicitly require adjectival names to be Latin or latinised classical
> Greek, but seems to allow any language, including English. This could be
> problematic! For one thing, if English isn't latinised, then there would
> seem to be no reason to use italics. I am having difficulty finding
> anything in the Code which requires the use of italics. If scientific names
> can be simply English, then all sorts of nonsense is possible, like:
> Antwithabighead andlonglegs
> Stephen
>     On Tuesday, 4 July 2023 at 04:17:37 pm NZST, Glenn Shea via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>  I'm not sure I see anything in the Code that precludes use of simple
> English for names. Sure, use of the names of people as nouns in apposition
> is recommended against, due to the potential confusion with authorship, but
> where does it say it is not possible to use simple English terms? It seems
> to be only a widely accepted convention. We've got New Guinea Tok Pisin
> names being created, from a language with English roots (in herpetology,
> the species Carlia ailanpalai, and the genus Palaia, and we came close
> (nomen nudum due to the untimely death of the author and a manuscript that
> went through after his death) to having Liklikpalaia, all based on Tok
> Pisin lizard, with variously island (ailan) and small (liklik) being
> added), so I don't see much of a step to having "blackhead" or "redwinged"
> (or even "thicc"!) being used as specific epithets, which would avoid any
> need for gender agreement. Not sure I support it, but I can't see the Code
> preventing it.
>
> But if we're at the stage of having taxonomists not knowing Latin (I can
> understand that very few taxonomists have an training in Ancient Greek),
> yet with Latin names (or Latinised/transliterated Greek names) being
> preferred by the Code, presumably modern taxonomists are having to go to
> Latin dictionaries (either hard copy or online) to come up with the vast
> majority of names being coined annually. Those same sources will tell you
> whether the name is a noun or adjective. Many of the hard copy Latin
> dictionaries come with a short Latin grammar at the front. So not sure I
> see that there is any great step involved in completing the process in
> Latin for adjectival names to have gender agreement, either for those
> taxonomists creating new names, or for those taxonomists who need to change
> generic combinations. The main pity is that there is no requirement in the
> Code for an etymology for the name to be provided, including such a
> statement.
>
> And for those who argue that suffixes are not important, I remind you of
> the unfortunate situation where the two endemic frogs on Fiji bear the
> somewhat confusing names Cornufer (or Platymantis) vitianus and C. (or P.)
> vitiensis.
>
> Regards,
> Glenn
>
> Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2023 21:28:44 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:
> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>>
> To: Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com<mailto:
> scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>>
> Cc: Taxacom Mailinglist <taxacom at lists.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at lists.ku.edu>>,
> Raymond Hoser The
>         Snakeman <viper007 at live.com.au<mailto:viper007 at live.com.au>>
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: Latin
> Message-ID: <2142282058.1577847.1688333324329 at mail.yahoo.com<mailto:
> 2142282058.1577847.1688333324329 at mail.yahoo.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Scott, nobody said it was the rewuired language for nomenclature. I said
> that the system is based on Latin or latinised Greek, which is true. There
> are caveats, of course. Names can be based on non Latin or Greek nouns, but
> not adjectives. For example, if there was a place called Bighead, then a
> species epithet could be bigheadensis. Maybe it could be used as a noun in
> apposition, to get the species epithet bighead, but this would not be
> recommended. However, if a species has a big head, then you can't use the
> species epithet bighead, you must use something like megacephala (or
> megacephalum or megacephalus, depending on the gender of the combined genus
> epithet).Stephen
>     On Monday, 3 July 2023 at 02:16:56 am NZST, Scott Thomson <
> scott.thomson321 at gmail.com<mailto:scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I do not think Latin or latinised Greek is the required language of the
> Code for nomenclature. What I think is more being implied is that we are to
> use the Latin alphabet for all names thus avoiding letters such as the
> Portuguese ? and the many others in various languages. There are rules of
> name formation which apply when you use a greek or latin word but there is
> no insistence that you use Latin or Greek words. There are many names and
> over an extended period that are not Greek or Latin derivatives. Chitra is
> a 19th century Turtle genus it is from Hindi. Names are to be a combination
> of letters that is pronounceable and in the latin alphabet, that is the
> major requirement.
> Cheers Scott
>
>
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> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
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> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
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> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
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> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
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> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>

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