[Taxacom] Molecular evidence (in 2017) supports my 2014 theory
about rafting killifish
John Grehan
calabar.john at gmail.com
Fri Jan 1 16:51:59 CST 2021
2021
But those studies are all cited within the panbiogeographic literature!
They are there for anyone to find. Interestingly it was the geologists Nur
and Ben Avraham (1977) who explicitly acknowledged that Croizat was first
and got it right about the composite tectonic structure of North America.
On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 5:41 PM Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:
> Yes, that is getting there. Cite those studies that also support your
> argument that are not part of the "panbiogeography literature."
>
>
> "You keep citing the panbiogeography literature as justification for the
> Panbiogeography view."
>
> Apologies if that appeared to be the case. I was probably citing the
> literature as having the studies pertinent to the issues. But if you can
> refer me to something specific I can address that.
>
> This is like citing Scientology literature to explain Scientology reality.
>
> Not having studied Scientology in any detail I don't know. But agreed, I
> have cited panbiogeographic studies to explain or present their results.
>
> Can you use something independent to support your views? Or does it have
> to be internal “evidence?� Because that is not logically convincing.
>
> What do you mean as 'something independent' to support the
> panbiogeographic conclusions? I guess it's up to you and everyone
> else to decide what is sufficient as 'support'. For example there are over
> 225 documented cases of disjunctions or offsets either side of the Alpine
> Fault of New Zealand where the lateral movement was initiated 23 Ma. The
> panbiogeographic view is that there is a causal connection so all of these
> taxa (or their immediate ancestors for sister group disjunctions) are at
> least 23 Ma. I suppose one could just take the view that the correlation is
> meaningless. In which case I suppose nothing will be 'convincing'.
>
> Now that I write this I recall that there have been frequent instances
> where molecular divergence estimates are older or match the
> panbiogeographic findings. So that is a sort of independent evidence I
> suppose. These are regularly cited in Heads' studies. And don't forget
> those novel geological predictions that have since been corroborated by
> geological discovery. I've mentioned that in the past and some respond with
> indifference. Each to their own.
>
> Cheers, John Grehan
>
> On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 2:17 PM Ivie, Michael <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:
>
>> You keep citing the panbiogeography literature as justification for the
>> Panbiogeography view. This is like citing Scientology literature to explain
>> Scientology reality. Can you use something independent to support your
>> views? Or does it have to be internal “evidence?� Because that is not
>> logically convincing.
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________
>> Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>>
>> NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
>>
>> *US Post Office Address:*
>> Montana Entomology Collection
>> Marsh Labs, Room 50
>> PO Box 173145
>> Montana State University
>> Bozeman, MT 59717
>> USA
>>
>> *UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:*
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>> Marsh Labs, Room 50
>> 1911 West Lincoln Street
>> Montana State University
>> Bozeman, MT 59718
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>>
>> (406) 994-4610 (voice)
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>> mivie at montana.edu
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of John
>> Grehan via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 1, 2021 9:56 AM
>> *To:* Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com>
>> *Cc:* taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Taxacom] Molecular evidence (in 2017) supports my 2014
>> theory about rafting killifish
>>
>> Hi Ken,
>>
>> The idea that there has to be a constant molecular clock throughout the
>> phylogenetic history of a group is not an empirical finding. It is a model
>> of evolution that may not be true. We see this in the morphological aspect
>> of molecular genetics where different groups separated or dislocated by a
>> tectonic feature show different levels of morphological divergence (for
>> example with the NZ Alpine fault dislocation where correlated
>> distributions
>> may be conspecific or species level differences even after more than 20
>> million years. So the panbiogeographic implication of tectonic correlation
>> is that this provides an approximation of age for the correlated groups.
>> It
>> has no necessary implication for the upper limits of their phylogenetic
>> origins involving other sister taxa. If molecular clock models
>> incorporating a tectonic correlation result in unacceptable results that
>> does not invalidate the tectonic correlation. But it does raise questions
>> about the molecular model. Nothing ridiculous about it at all. This has
>> been commented on in the panbiogeography literature.
>>
>> Whether or not the acceptance of geological correlations as an
>> empirical source of evidence for vicariance is 'extreme obsession' or not
>> is neither here nor there. Fact is that fossil calibrated divergence
>> estimates are minimums and no one, including yourself, has demonstrated
>> anything to the contrary. And now what has been drawn to attention is the
>> larger and more problematic issue as to whether there is a constant
>> molecular clock over long periods of time. Like priors, molecular clocks
>> are also theoretical models (and there are different models) and open to
>> question or refutation. I would like to see you, Ken, show how a constant
>> molecular clock is substantiated as empirical evidence (I guess you won't
>> based on your past reluctance concerning fossil calibration, but I might
>> as
>> well ask).
>>
>> Cheers, John Grehan
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 1, 2021 at 10:59 AM Kenneth Kinman via Taxacom <
>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > Hi Rob,
>> > Thank you for the work you have done on this subject in spite of
>> > panbiogeographer's criticisms. I just read your critique of Heads, 2005
>> > (Smissen et al., 2005 "Dating nodes on molecular phylogenies: older or
>> > younger than the Earth itself?"
>> > The following is certainly a valid criticism of Heads: "If this
>> > was then extrapolated to the tribal�level divergences (around 0.4
>> > substitutions per site) within the Caryophyllaceae that we used as a
>> > calibration for our dating, then the Caryophyllaceae are projected to
>> be in
>> > excess of 10 billion years old."
>> > It would take an extremely wild fluctuating molecular clock for
>> > panbiogeographers to explain this away. And yet all Grehan could
>> suggest
>> > in his latest post was: "Only if the 'clock' was constant throughout.
>> > Maybe it's not." That is a rather ridiculous statement, and certainly
>> > provides none of the "empirical evidence" that he is always demanding.
>> It
>> > only provides yet another example of their extreme obsession with
>> > vicariance.
>> >
>> >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinelibrary.wiley.com%2Fdoi%2F10.1111%2Fj.1096-0031.2005.00077.x&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171721685%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=reRAYgm23itk6cbeV82NIa9r52s3NraTNUQuOZ%2BSjsk%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinelibrary.wiley.com%2Fdoi%2F10.1111%2Fj.1096-0031.2005.00077.x&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646053978%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nFpdASvV9do2kX7j9BHPGgLOytA2wg9D%2Fd6%2FvJUdpdE%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of Rob
>> > Smissen via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2020 2:59 AM
>> > To: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu <
>> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Molecular evidence (in 2017) supports my 2014
>> > theory about rafting killifish
>> >
>> > I think this sort of argument is why people consider panbiogeography to
>> be
>> > analogous with creationism. Personally, I don’t think it’s a fair
>> analogy.
>> > Creationism is significantly less credible than panbiogeography, but
>> that
>> > is not saying much. It is not enough to say that clades might be older
>> than
>> > guestimated from the fossil record, or that molecular clocks are very
>> bad
>> > clocks. I would like to see the panbiogeographers accounts of how among
>> > lineage rate variation and older ages of fossils combine to explain
>> > patterns in DNA sequence data. It’s a black art, put in whatever priors
>> you
>> > want, give us some actual results.
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> On Behalf Of John
>> > Grehan via Taxacom
>> > Sent: Tuesday, 29 December 2020 10:57 AM
>> > To: Michael Heads <m.j.heads at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Molecular evidence (in 2017) supports my 2014
>> > theory about rafting killifish
>> >
>> > One interesting thing about De Baets et al is that one of the authors,
>> > Philip Donoghue, is a molecular biologist who has published on molecular
>> > systematics. Makes one wonder (or it should) that a molecular
>> systematists
>> > resorts to referring to molecular divergence practice as a 'dark art'.
>> If a
>> > molecular systematists can't make scientific sense of it, who can? I am
>> > assuming that Donoghue isn't stupid.
>> >
>> > On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 1:07 PM Michael Heads via Taxacom <
>> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Ken, you write: 'It is interesting that Heads quotes De Baets *et
>> > > al*.,
>> > > 2016 as saying ‘could be considered a dark art’, but their source for
>> > > that "dark art" comment was Heads himself (Heads, 2012; "Bayesian
>> > > transmogrifcation..."'). That's not correct.
>> > >
>> > > De Baets et al wrote: '...molecular clocks must be calibrated by
>> > > estimates of divergence timing and so it has become necessary [if
>> > > you're relying on fossils] to provide a probabilistic judgement of the
>> > > degree to which fossil minima approximate divergence timing. The
>> > > established means of achieving this could be considered a dark art
>> > > (Heads, 2012)'. But I did not use the phrase 'dark art' in my own
>> > > paper or anywhere else.
>> > >
>> > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 9:57 AM Kenneth Kinman via Taxacom <
>> > > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Thanks Jason,
>> > > > Your post was very good. It was then followed by Heads who
>> > > > (like
>> > > > Grehan) just repeats the same old arguments. It is interesting that
>> > > Heads
>> > > > quotes De Baets *et al*., 2016 as saying ‘could be considered a dark
>> > > art’,
>> > > > but their source for that "dark art" comment was Heads himself
>> > > > (Heads, 2012; "Bayesian transmogrifcation...").
>> > > > I don't understand why Heads and Grehan have to bash those
>> > > > who disagree with them, using phrases like "dark art", twaddle,
>> > > > transmogrification, "geological data manipulation", "magical black
>> > > > box", and on and on. Especially when it appears in scientific
>> papers.
>> > > > By the way, I was reading a published reply to Heads, 2011
>> > > > (in which he repeatedly accused his opponents of
>> > > > transmogrification). In
>> > > that
>> > > > reply, they say: "We demonstrate here that calibration using
>> > > > tectonic events, as suggested by Heads (2011), generates an
>> > > > unrealistic hypothesis where the evolution of Asteraceae must have
>> > > > taken place contemporary with or earlier than the Cambrian
>> > > > explosion. This would be hundreds of million years earlier than the
>> > origin of the asterids."
>> > > > This reply to Heads can be read here:
>> > > >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Facademic.oup.com%2Fsysbio%2Farticle%2F61%2F3%2F522%2F1670654&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171721685%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=vmCO53XuYax3coRP1mfrM70JccI9%2Fo880r6BILjDVVw%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Facademic.oup.com%2Fsysbio%2Farticle%2F61%2F3%2F522%2F1670654&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646063972%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=XMnaUn1l5DFxtyQHDBsqkGWW8xeGZfN3s%2Bhk644svH8%3D&reserved=0>
>> > > >
>> > > > ________________________________
>> > > > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of
>> > > > Michael Heads via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> > > > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2020 1:26 PM
>> > > > To: JF Mate <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com>
>> > > > Cc: Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Molecular evidence (in 2017) supports my 2014
>> > > > theory about rafting killifish
>> > > >
>> > > > '...not a magical black box'.
>> > > >
>> > > > No, it's definitely a magical black box. You can get any date you
>> want.
>> > > > Here's a section from a recent manuscript:
>> > > >
>> > > > *The problem of the priors*
>> > > >
>> > > > In the Modern Synthesis approach, ‘Fossils record the origins and
>> > > > disappearance of organisms’ (Herrera, 2017). However, a clade’s
>> > > > actual
>> > > age
>> > > > is older than its oldest fossil’s age by an unknown amount of time.
>> > > > In
>> > > most
>> > > > studies, clade ages are calculated from fossil-calibrated
>> > > > molecular-clock analyses. However, fossil calibrated studies on
>> > > > their own can provide
>> > > only
>> > > > minimum ages. In Bayesian analyses, these *fossil* ages are
>> > > > converted
>> > > into
>> > > > estimates of absolute (not minimum) *clade* ages by imposing priors
>> > > > that stipulate how much older than its oldest fossil a clade is.
>> > > > Naturally,
>> > > the
>> > > > estimates of clade age are extremely sensitive to the time priors
>> > > (Warnock
>> > > > *et
>> > > > al*., 2015).
>> > > >
>> > > > The problem is that the choice of the priors is left up to the
>> > > > author,
>> > > and
>> > > > the priors that are chosen are invariably very narrow; in other
>> > > > words, a clade used for calibration is assumed to be not much older
>> > > > (often <10
>> > > Myr)
>> > > > than
>> > > > its oldest fossil. This use of very narrow priors represents the
>> > > > formal imposition of an old belief – that fossil age more or less
>> > > > equals clade age.
>> > > >
>> > > > Choosing priors is ‘highly arbitrary’ (Pirie and Doyle, 2012),
>> > > > ‘...often subjective…’ (Ho & Duchêne, 2014), ‘invariably established
>> > > > without justification’ (Warnock *et al*., 2015) and, in sum, ‘could
>> > > > be
>> > > considered a
>> > > > dark art’ (De Baets *et al*., 2016). Thus, while the clade ages
>> > > > generated in Bayesian studies are extremely precise and have
>> > > > excellent statistical support, becaue of the problem of the priors
>> > > > they can be ‘grossly inaccurate’ (dos Reis *et al*., 2016) and could
>> > > > be tens or even hundreds
>> > > of
>> > > > millions of years too young. As Hauenschild *et al.* (2018)
>> > > > observed,
>> > > clade
>> > > > ages that are too young may be calculated ‘based on too narrowly set
>> > > > priors, and vicariance thereby may be erroneously ruled out’.
>> > > >
>> > > > On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 2:59 AM JF Mate via Taxacom <
>> > > > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > John, you are not discussing the points nor answering the
>> > > > > questions but simply repeating "twaddle" in an attempt to rescue a
>> > > > > point of view (Croizatian Panbiogeography) which is simply
>> > > > > untenable nowadays. All biogeographers consider vicariance and
>> > > > > dispersal, and their definition
>> > > of
>> > > > > dispersal does not depend on accepting Panbiogeography.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > As for node calibration, exponential and lognormal bounds are not
>> > > maximum
>> > > > > ages but probability curves which extend the "minimum" node age
>> > > > > into
>> > > the
>> > > > > past as a first step. The model then works the best fit based on
>> > > > > the
>> > > data
>> > > > > at hand and gives you estimated ages with ranges. That is a
>> > > > > transparent model, not a magical black box as you are claiming.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > It is fair to argue if the model parameters are adequate, if the
>> > > fossils
>> > > > > used are properly interpreted, or to reanalyze the data. These are
>> > > > > all limitations, but simply using them to disregard studies out of
>> > > > > hand
>> > > > because
>> > > > > they don't support your point of view is not helpful.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Best
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Jason
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Sat, 26 Dec 2020, 01:57 John Grehan, <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Jason – thank you for elaborating on the defense of minimums
>> > > > > > misrepresented as maximums. Comment below:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > “0.5 SD on the fossil's age seems a reasonable and conservative
>> > > range�
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > 'reasonable or not' it's still just made up out of thin air. It
>> > > > > > is
>> > > > magic.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > “Are you arguing for a minimum hardbound and if so what is your
>> > > > > > justification? “
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Yes, although not sure what you mean by 'hardbound'. A minimum
>> > > > > > is a minimum so it is hardbound in that respect. Justification
>> > > > > > is simple, fossils provide minimum ages and no data on potential
>> > > > > > older ages of
>> > > > > origin
>> > > > > > for the taxon in question.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > “why not use lognormal or exponential for both points and maybe
>> > > > > > some sensitivity analysis in regards to this but other than that
>> > > > > > I
>> > > wouldn't
>> > > > > call
>> > > > > > it twaddle�
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > You are welcome to use anything you like, but it's still magic
>> > > > > > and
>> > > the
>> > > > > > result is twaddle. A minimum cannot be turned into a maximum.
>> > > > > > That is
>> > > > the
>> > > > > > reality. The rest is an invention of the imagination.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > “This argument is at best specious. Molecular calibrations have
>> > > > > > been
>> > > > > using
>> > > > > > soft calibrations for well over a decade now to account for the
>> > > > > > uncertainties that you mention “
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Wrong, the molecular calibrations misrepresent minimum ages as
>> > > maximum.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > “ majority use either lognormal or exponential bounds “
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > So what? They are both inventions of the mind – magical
>> > > transformation
>> > > > of
>> > > > > > minimum into maximum.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > “In other words, there is already the acknowledgement that known
>> > > > fossils
>> > > > > > may not be the oldest exemplars of a taxon, but you have to work
>> > > > > > with
>> > > > > what
>> > > > > > you have
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > of course. But if fossils may not be the oldest exemplars then
>> > > > > > the molecular extrapolations may not be either. To say otherwise
>> > > > > > is to
>> > > > > invoke a
>> > > > > > magical transformation - not science as I understand it.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > “ and, when new fossil evidence is discovered, corrections will
>> > > > > > be
>> > > > made.�
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Corrections to what? Corrections to a maximum that never was in
>> > > > > > the
>> > > > first
>> > > > > > place?
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > “What you are asking for is the legal equivalent of proving
>> > > > > > someone's innocence.�
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Rubbish. I am asking that the empirical reality be recognized –
>> > > > > > that fossil calibrated molecular divergence dates be recognized
>> > > > > > as minions
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > cannot falsify earlier origins or biogeographic correlations
>> > > > > > that may suggest earlier origins.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Molecular transformations of minimums into maximums is perhaps
>> > > > > > the
>> > > only
>> > > > > > modern case of magic being used in science that I am aware of
>> > > > > > (other
>> > > > than
>> > > > > > perhaps some political inventions with COVID). Just to be sure
>> > > > > > that
>> > > > there
>> > > > > > is no misunderstanding (as has happened in the literature),
>> > > > > > panbiogeographic approaches do not ignore or disregard molecular
>> > > > > divergence
>> > > > > > ages, but accept and incorporate those findings as MINIMUM ages
>> > only.
>> > > > > That
>> > > > > > is science.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Cheers,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > John Grehan
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Fri, Dec 25, 2020 at 7:01 AM JF Mate
>> > > > > > <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >> Michael, regarding the calibration method used: "It corresponds
>> > > > > >> to
>> > > the
>> > > > > >> origin of the crown European cyprinodontoid clade [39], which
>> > > > > >> was
>> > > > > estimated
>> > > > > >> to have occurred at least 33 Ma on the basis of the oldest
>> > > > identifiable
>> > > > > >> clade member, the
>> > > > > >> fossil Prolebias stenoura Sauvage, 1874 from the Lower Stampien
>> > > (Lower
>> > > > > >> Oligocene) of Puy-
>> > > > > >> de-Dome, France [40] (prior setting: lognormal distribution,
>> > > > > >> mean >> > > 33
>> > > > > >> and standard devia-
>> > > > > >> tion = 0.5). ( [40] Costa WJEM. Oligocene killifishes
>> (Teleostei:
>> > > > > >> Cyprinodontiformes) from southern France: relationships,
>> > > > > >> taxonomic position, and evidence of internal fertilization.
>> > Vertebr Zool.
>> > > 2012;
>> > > > > 62:
>> > > > > >> 371–386.)
>> > > > > >>
>> > > > > >> John:
>> > > > > >> 0.5 SD on the fossil's age seems a reasonable and conservative
>> > > range,
>> > > > > >> with a lognormal distribution for the node. My only quibble is
>> > > > > >> why
>> > > not
>> > > > > use
>> > > > > >> lognormal or exponential for both points and maybe some
>> > > > > >> sentivity
>> > > > > analysis
>> > > > > >> in regards to this but other than that I wouldn't call it
>> twaddle.
>> > > Are
>> > > > > you
>> > > > > >> arguing for a minimum hardbound and if so what is your
>> > > justification?
>> > > > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Taxacom Mailing List
>> > > >
>> > > > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to:
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>> > > >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171721685%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=7PP%2BqZtd1xrfZ5U6jSzfmIlsyKL36ebc%2BuqhIfuyXb0%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646063972%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3kxXNvzdzSvMv4US7fFJoQHqFx112vNxJWXPBzViyi4%3D&reserved=0>
>> > > > You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> > > > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > > > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> > > >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=kHceOwKuCh6Cj76hiA83qn4xh%2Bn3sVSULz9PY6tfRGY%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646073968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=IUQRj3GIx1moIbuHGaqOtHw8fiY854w2wzNJhmNNkzo%3D&reserved=0>
>> > > >
>> > > > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
>> > > 1987-2020.
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Dunedin, New Zealand.
>> > >
>> > > My books:
>> > >
>> > > *Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC,
>> > > Boca Raton FL. 2017.
>> > >
>> > >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHe&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=rKB7Ru8jKvLARnVzC2bGkEOi1Zs5%2FmvPEgkNRdyknN4%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHe&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646073968%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdataÚcqvy2YSnWW%2FtmqxqgjFiH42yraXzaqxBVl%2FaP5JEQ%3D&reserved=0>
>> > > ads/p/book/9781498751872
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *Biogeography of Australasia: A molecular analysis*. Cambridge
>> > > University Press, Cambridge. 2014.
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=OuqkLz955OExSc8Kv6m%2B1UNLlkHb0aM6ad%2FZeHBr%2Fs4%3D&reserved=0<
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646083959%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=EpjhAQv3tlgH8J2xjD%2FPi7goYuwrZ1XB2G%2Bl3eSb1qE%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=OuqkLz955OExSc8Kv6m%2B1UNLlkHb0aM6ad%2FZeHBr%2Fs4%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646093954%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdataŽQCdTwTkaPdm7mRVPQlJ2puYXeV5BSwxfYalyCd304%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California
>> > > Press, Berkeley. 2012.
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o4QNtrTWFXhDGQRvwpcTGsIRoJutDBja5rcvW2GcgWc%3D&reserved=0<
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646093954%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdataÏrBAvowzyrDdeje3v0UAjXefGh5KQOgziqxkevjt%2Bc%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=o4QNtrTWFXhDGQRvwpcTGsIRoJutDBja5rcvW2GcgWc%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646103950%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=IaiCRctQiDkwLPaAHoyjqQtduRCv7xW08owEYmtgkIQ%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > *Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University
>> > > Press, New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
>> > >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Tjm7OnnrK%2BGHe1YgSVD1neGHACh59FdRPZw5Ndg8cPc%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646103950%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdataÓPC2rqUYa66xt6XJVkEc6fhA5XpkC72LUgSNyBkKeE%3D&reserved=0>
>> > > <
>> > >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC%26dq%3Dpanbiogeography%26sou&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=EUvpKEDK5iEhHX0yKpXgEMobl6k3DLEeBscF05sMTP4%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC%26dq%3Dpanbiogeography%26sou&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646113941%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdataEZivClxSuWvlVinv2Pf05qn5aY7mCVsiJ0s7hEB9Ko%3D&reserved=0>
>> > > rce=gbs_navlinks_s
>> > > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Taxacom Mailing List
>> > >
>> > > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> > >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=O9xBNmCk2CBJ4kFVzYXgQwCaPMpxixl38B3cNWfC0GE%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646113941%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Sq9t5lAl4IE8IyNB2aiPMcKKAGLvrq8734D0e1EA0rw%3D&reserved=0>
>> > > You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> > > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> > >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=kHceOwKuCh6Cj76hiA83qn4xh%2Bn3sVSULz9PY6tfRGY%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646123937%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=ONdCFfYAIcoTzhXO2zA6jwq3P0efaBbdvFAm52HtFUk%3D&reserved=0>
>> > >
>> > > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
>> > 1987-2020.
>> > >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Taxacom Mailing List
>> >
>> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> For
>> > list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=O9xBNmCk2CBJ4kFVzYXgQwCaPMpxixl38B3cNWfC0GE%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646133933%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=2IaFIRG%2FnLdO9%2BcWwmjUoRDKjOvS4mZofZ1gJuICCUQ%3D&reserved=0>
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu The Taxacom email archive back to 1992
>> > can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=kHceOwKuCh6Cj76hiA83qn4xh%2Bn3sVSULz9PY6tfRGY%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646133933%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=5XdXePY%2BeB26IXB%2FUfUVY2va0FO6vvqs9HzQISmddZ8%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
>> 1987-2020.
>> >
>> > ________________________________
>> >
>> > Please consider the environment before printing this email
>> > Warning: This electronic message together with any attachments is
>> > confidential. If you receive it in error: (i) you must not read, use,
>> > disclose, copy or retain it; (ii) please contact the sender immediately
>> by
>> > reply email and then delete the emails.
>> > The views expressed in this email may not be those of Landcare Research
>> > New Zealand Limited.
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.landcareresearch.co.nz%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Mw%2BU0E3IXIc8QBiPehCRoFL6bfOanbrNQVC1yOJ3is0%3D&reserved=0
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>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Taxacom Mailing List
>> >
>> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171731680%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=O9xBNmCk2CBJ4kFVzYXgQwCaPMpxixl38B3cNWfC0GE%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646143925%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=TUwkKgjIrdh8C%2BR94Pw%2Bc6B9UXQcZw611Z%2BmuCVJbjY%3D&reserved=0>
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171741674%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=TNfEK0YYilKN87b0Rj2mEdhsjZrBrfuG%2B7%2BOG57oak0%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646153919%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=XvI%2Fk1QdvDdzoxbsOViuyqHdBL8PTswt5f3cMGG55Q8%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
>> 1987-2020.
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Taxacom Mailing List
>> >
>> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171741674%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=G1876hD2V72qZo0dsVSefxFMq6ptFBHMx9YE8wU7nDY%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646153919%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=Ink9g3bB96MIgUWq5%2FUuR5XlqQsYAXuvR%2FXXl5Mqjec%3D&reserved=0>
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> > taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171741674%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=TNfEK0YYilKN87b0Rj2mEdhsjZrBrfuG%2B7%2BOG57oak0%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646163914%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=TT8nExXz0XnKKn8RgFHqNxC56Wu5wzQBJ0b6VeYl83g%3D&reserved=0>
>> >
>> > Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years,
>> 1987-2020.
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171741674%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=G1876hD2V72qZo0dsVSefxFMq6ptFBHMx9YE8wU7nDY%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.nhm.ku.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftaxacom&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646163914%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=nkcLNg6Q%2BpIFKJvgqRzVi3zfalGTsOjjE4cUGH7I5f8%3D&reserved=0>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protectio
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnam10.safelinks.protectio%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646173905%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata•71sEJq%2FemfiwdBrDUD8GWRyVeWeEIPE5v959R3Gro%3D&reserved=0>
>> n.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7C7a3eaa762f0646a6459b08d8ae763cf9%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451170171741674%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=TNfEK0YYilKN87b0Rj2mEdhsjZrBrfuG%2B7%2BOG57oak0%3D&reserved=0
>> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Ftaxacom.markmail.org%2F&data%7C01%7Cmivie%40montana.edu%7Ca0f7a64f09004a537c8808d8aea561d0%7C324aa97a03a644fc91e43846fbced113%7C0%7C0%7C637451372646173905%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=iiUVqcVpdh75B9HjjDMP3wVphm22yUVNmciZYYy%2Fv4I%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assaulting ambiguity for about 33 years, 1987-2020.
>>
> --
> __________________________________________________
>
> Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
>
> NOTE: two addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
>
> US Post Office Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> PO Box 173145
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59717
> USA
>
> UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> 1911 West Lincoln Street
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59718
> USA
>
>
> (406) 994-4610 (voice)
> (406) 994-6029 (FAX)mivie at montana.edu
>
>
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