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[Taxacom] Question about labelling types

Stephen Thorpe stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Sun Feb 28 15:43:42 CST 2016


Well I did initially leave out the ceteris paribus clause, but I figured I could clarify later if needed. I didn't anticipate people with too much time on their hands jumping on my initial words and accusing me of being wrong before I had chance to clarify, but whatever floats your boat ...

Stephen
 
--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 29/2/16, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Question about labelling types
 To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 Received: Monday, 29 February, 2016, 10:26 AM
 
 Stephen,
 
 Your understanding of English
 is better than that -- you made an 
 unequivocal assertion of fact. Nothing about
 opinion, nothing about all 
 things being
 equal, just one of your pontifications as fact. Your fact
 
 was wrong, and even if you had properly
 labeled it, your opinion 
 incorrect as
 stated.
 
 Mike
 
 On 2/28/2016 2:22 PM, Stephen
 Thorpe wrote:
 > When I said: They are
 syntypes, but the one labelled as holotype should be chosen
 as lectotype (if a lectotype is to be designated).
 >
 > I didn't say
 anything that was wrong or misleading! I didn't say that
 it was a rule (or recommendation) in the Code. I just
 offered my opinion that one should, all other things being
 equal, designate the unpublished holotype as lectotype (if a
 lectotype is needed). If you read more into it than was
 there, that's your bad. Taxacom is, after all, a forum
 for opinions.
 >
 >
 Stephen
 >
 >
 --------------------------------------------
 > On Mon, 29/2/16, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
 wrote:
 >
 >   Subject: Re: [Taxacom]
 Question about labelling types
 >   To: "Stephen
 Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>,
 taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   Received: Monday, 29
 February, 2016, 10:07 AM
 >   
 >   Disagree all you want, it
 >   does not matter.  Nothing in
 the Code or
 >   anything else
 will protect us from those with
 >   poor decision making
 >   skills, we just hope
 >   that usually people will make
 good decisions, for
 >   the
 others, we can only shake our heads.  But,
 >   trying to suggest rules
 >   like you have is
 >   simply pointless -- not going
 to happen, not going to
 >   be
 in the rules, not going to be followed, and
 >   for the most part, that
 >   is for the best.
 >   Asserting an answer as if 
 there is such a rule, as
 >   you did here:
 >   > Julio,
 >   >
 >   > They are syntypes,
 >   but the one labelled as
 holotype should be chosen as
 >   lectotype (if a lectotype is
 to be designated).
 >   >
 >   > Cheers,
 >   >
 >   > Stephen
 >     is misleading and counter
 productive, as
 >   well as
 wrong.
 >   
 >   One can only
 >   hope that the reviser will
 take all things into account and
 >   
 >   choose what will best
 contribute to
 >   stability,
 but there are those who
 >   think
 >   making changes makes them
 important. Can't fix those
 >   types, they
 >   are just something we  have
 to
 >   live with.
 >   
 >   Mike
 >   
 >   On 2/28/2016 1:40 PM,
 Stephen
 >   Thorpe wrote:
 >   > I disagree! All other
 >   things are often equal in
 this scenario. At any rate, we
 >   want to avoid scenarios like
 this hypothetical example:
 >   >
 >   > A reviser wants to be
 >   seen to be making a
 difference. Suppose there are 10
 >   syntypes, 9 of which are the
 species that the original
 >   author intended to name, but
 1 syntype is a poor specimen of
 >   a closely related long ago
 described species. So, the
 >   reviser designates the latter
 as lectotype, synonymises the
 >   species, and describes a new
 species with the other 9
 >   syntypes! That might well
 best meet the needs of the
 >   reviser!
 >   >
 >   >
 >   Stephen
 >   >
 >   >
 >   --------------------------------------------
 >   > On Mon, 29/2/16, Michael
 A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
 >   wrote:
 >   >
 >   >   Subject:
 Re: [Taxacom]
 >   Question
 about labelling types
 >   >   To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   >   Received:
 Monday, 29
 >   February, 2016,
 9:15 AM
 >   >
 >   >   All things
 are never
 >   >   equal, the
 illegitimate
 >   holotype
 label is
 >   >   meaningless
 and should be
 >   ignored when
 deciding
 >   >   which
 Syntype best meets
 >   >   the need of
 the
 >   >   reviser
 doing the Lectotype
 >   designation.
 >   >
 >   >   Mike
 >   >
 >   >
 >   >   >   _______________________________________________
 >   >   >   >
 >   Taxacom Mailing
 >   >   List
 >   >   >   > 
 Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   >   >   > 
 http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >   >   >   > 
 The
 >   Taxacom Archive
 >   >   back to
 >   1992 may be
 >   >   >   searched
 >   at:
 >   >   >   >
 >   http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >   >   >   >
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 >   Channeling
 >   >   >   Intellectual
 >   Exuberance for
 >   >   29 years
 in
 >   2016.
 >   >   >   >
 >   >   >
 >   >   >
 >   >   >   --
 >   >   >   Geoffrey
 B.
 >   Read, Ph.D.
 >   >   >   8
 Zaida
 >   Way, Maupuia
 >   >   >   Wellington,
 >   NEW ZEALAND
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 >   >   >
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 >   >   _______________________________________________
 >   >   >
 Taxacom Mailing List
 >   >   >
 >   >   Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   >   > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >   >   > The
 Taxacom Archive back
 >   to
 1992 may be
 >   >   searched
 >   at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >   >   >
 >   >   >
 Channeling
 >   >   Intellectual
 Exuberance for
 >   29 years in
 2016.
 >   >
 >   >   --
 >   >   __________________________________________________
 >   >
 >   >   Michael A.
 Ivie, Ph.D.,
 >   >   F.R.E.S.
 >   >
 >   >   US Post
 Office
 >   >   Address:
 >   >   Montana
 Entomology
 >   Collection
 >   >   Marsh
 Labs,
 >   Room 50
 >   >   1911
 West
 >   >   Lincoln
 Street
 >   >   Montana
 State University
 >   >   Bozeman, MT
 59717
 >   >   USA
 >   >
 >   >   UPS, FedEx,
 DHL Address:
 >   >   Montana
 Entomology
 >   Collection
 >   >   Marsh
 Labs,
 >   Room 50
 >   >   1911
 West
 >   >   Lincoln
 Street
 >   >   Montana
 State University
 >   >   Bozeman, MT
 59718
 >   >   USA
 >   >
 >   >
 >   >   (406)
 >   >   994-4610
 (voice)
 >   >   (406)
 994-6029 (FAX)
 >   >   mivie at montana.edu
 >   >
 >   >   _______________________________________________
 >   >   Taxacom
 Mailing List
 >   >   Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 >   >   http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >   >   The Taxacom
 Archive back to
 >   1992 may
 be
 >   >   searched
 at:
 >   http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >   >
 >   >   Channeling
 Intellectual
 >   >   Exuberance
 for 29 years in
 >   2016.
 >   >
 >   > .
 >   >
 >   
 >   --
 >   __________________________________________________
 >   
 >   Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D.,
 >   F.R.E.S.
 >   
 >   US Post Office
 >   Address:
 >   Montana Entomology
 Collection
 >   Marsh Labs,
 Room 50
 >   1911 West
 >   Lincoln Street
 >   Montana State University
 >   Bozeman, MT 59717
 >   USA
 >   
 >   UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 >   Montana Entomology
 Collection
 >   Marsh Labs,
 Room 50
 >   1911 West
 >   Lincoln Street
 >   Montana State University
 >   Bozeman, MT 59718
 >   USA
 >   
 >   
 >   (406)
 >   994-4610 (voice)
 >   (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 >   mivie at montana.edu
 >   
 >
 > .
 >
 
 -- 
 __________________________________________________
 
 Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D.,
 F.R.E.S.
 
 US Post Office
 Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 1911 West
 Lincoln Street
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59717
 USA
 
 UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 1911 West
 Lincoln Street
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59718
 USA
 
 
 (406)
 994-4610 (voice)
 (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 mivie at montana.edu
 




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