[Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles
John Grehan
calabar.john at gmail.com
Sat Apr 25 21:56:01 CDT 2015
2015
We already have plenty of monkeys - us.
John Grehan
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 9:43 PM, Anthony Gill <gill.anthony at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Well, I've just set up a bunch of monkeys on laptops. I'm not expecting
> Shakespeare's sonnets, but given enough time I'm hoping they'll knock out a
> decent taxonomic monograph or two.
>
> On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 8:34 AM, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> If Stephen's view of biogeography is that it is just a series of beliefs
>> or assertions then there is certainly not much more to be said about that.
>> Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and there is no where further to go
>> with that. But if one views biogeography as a science in the sense of
>> applying methods of analysis (of geography and phylogeny) then one goes
>> beyond just stating a personal belief to presenting a reasoned judgement or
>> argument about the efficacy of particular methods and their results - as
>> with any other science.
>>
>> John Grehan
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Stephen Thorpe <
>> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>>> Biogeography is just a pompous "academic" (in the worst sense) waste of
>>> time! Putting aside, for present purposes, the vast issue of marine
>>> biogeography, chance transoceanic dispersal of terrestrials is *unlikely*,
>>> yes, but all that means is that it isn't going to happen lots of times in a
>>> short stretch of time. Given many millions of years, it can still happen
>>> often enough to be a significant factor. There seems to be a slide from
>>> "unlikely to happen" to "can't happen"! Any academic discipline which is
>>> based ultimately on chance events is not going to be very useful!
>>> Biogeography ... we don't need to know! The existence of sister taxa on
>>> adjacent islands (or other landmasses) can be explained equally well by
>>> dispersal (since dispersal is most likely to happen between adjacent
>>> landmasses) or by vicariance (since vicariance is most likely to happen
>>> between adjacent landmasses)!
>>>
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------
>>> On Sun, 26/4/15, Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles
>>> To: "'Anthony Gill'" <gill.anthony at gmail.com>, "'Karl Magnacca'" <
>>> kmagnacca at wesleyan.edu>
>>> Cc: "'TAXACOM'" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, "'Dr. Antonio Lopez'" <
>>> cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu>
>>> Received: Sunday, 26 April, 2015, 12:35 AM
>>>
>>> The same argument could
>>> be applied to ANY model of biogeography (dispersal,
>>> vicariance, panbiogeography, etc., etc.) That is, any
>>> presumption that any single model accounts for every pattern
>>> (or even most patterns) is, in my opinion, naïve. This is
>>> not to say that, in the end, one model does not dominate.
>>> But we are SO, SO, SO far away from understanding both
>>> evolutionary history and the actual distribution patterns of
>>> most living things, that only people who don't really
>>> understand the nature of biodiversity make claims that we
>>> are close to fully understanding it.
>>>
>>> Aloha,
>>> Rich
>>>
>>>
>>> > -----Original
>>> Message-----
>>> > From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
>>> On Behalf Of
>>> > Anthony Gill
>>> > Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 1:12 AM
>>> > To: Karl Magnacca
>>> > Cc:
>>> TAXACOM; Dr. Antonio Lopez
>>> > Subject: Re:
>>> [Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles
>>> >
>>> > Of course, there are
>>> other from beyond panbiogeography that are concerned
>>> > that dispersal explanations should not be
>>> given a first-order explanation for
>>> >
>>> everything in biogeography. There is pattern to be
>>> discovered and explored. A
>>> > presumption
>>> of dispersal as an explanation for everything makes for
>>> > uninteresting, and ultimately irrelevant,
>>> research. I want no part of that.
>>> >
>>> > Tony
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Karl
>>> Magnacca
>>> > <kmagnacca at wesleyan.edu>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 13:24:32
>>> "Dr. Antonio Lopez"
>>> > >
>>> <cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > > Colleague:
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> Thank you for the article of Head. Only when I read
>>> everything I am
>>> > > > able to
>>> understand and to reason. I never understood that
>>> supposed
>>> > > > difference between
>>> dispersalism and vicariancism as different
>>> > > > schools.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > > That's because
>>> they're not. It's only in the mind of
>>> panbiogeograpy
>>> > > supporters like
>>> Grehan and Heads, who promote the idea that because
>>> > > rare trans-oceanic dispersal is
>>> unlikely, that therefore it never
>>> > >
>>> happens (while simultaneously claiming that they say no such
>>> thing,
>>> > > invoking the undefined term
>>> "regular dispersal") that such a dichotomy
>>> > > exists.
>>> > >
>>> > > Karl
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> > > Taxacom Mailing List
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>>> > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> > > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
>>> be searched at:
>>> > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>> > >
>>> > > Celebrating
>>> 28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Dr Anthony C. Gill
>>> >
>>> Natural History Curator
>>> > A12 Macleay
>>> Museum
>>> > University of Sydney
>>> > NSW 2006
>>> >
>>> Australia.
>>> >
>>> > Ph.
>>> +61 02 9036 6499
>>> >
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> > Taxacom Mailing List
>>> >
>>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
>>> searched at:
>>> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>> >
>>> > Celebrating 28 years
>>> of Taxacom in 2015.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
>>> searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>>
>>> Celebrating 28 years of
>>> Taxacom in 2015.
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
>>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>>
>>> Celebrating 28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Dr Anthony C. Gill
> Natural History Curator
> A12 Macleay Museum
> University of Sydney
> NSW 2006
> Australia.
>
> Ph. +61 02 9036 6499
>
>
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