[Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles
Stephen Thorpe
stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Sat Apr 25 21:19:21 CDT 2015
2015
Aw Neal, that joke was fowl ...
--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 26/4/15, Neal Evenhuis <neale at bishopmuseum.org> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles
To: "Anthony Gill" <gill.anthony at gmail.com>, "John Grehan" <calabar.john at gmail.com>
Cc: "Karl Magnacca" <kmagnacca at wesleyan.edu>, "TAXACOM" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, "Dr. Antonio Lopez" <cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu>
Received: Sunday, 26 April, 2015, 2:16 PM
If you use chickens, you
can at least get a pecking order...
On Stardate
4/25/15 3:43 PM, "Anthony Gill" <gill.anthony at gmail.com>
wrote:
>Well, I've
just set up a bunch of monkeys on laptops. I'm not
expecting
>Shakespeare's sonnets, but
given enough time I'm hoping they'll knock out
>a
>decent taxonomic
monograph or two.
>
>On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 8:34 AM, John
Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> If Stephen's view of biogeography
is that it is just a series of beliefs
>> or assertions then there is certainly
not much more to be said about
>>that.
>> Everyone
is entitled to their beliefs and there is no where further
to
>>go
>> with
that. But if one views biogeography as a science in the
sense of
>> applying methods of
analysis (of geography and phylogeny) then one goes
>> beyond just stating a personal belief
to presenting a reasoned
>>judgement
or
>> argument about the efficacy of
particular methods and their results - as
>> with any other science.
>>
>> John
Grehan
>>
>> On
Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Stephen Thorpe <
>> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
wrote:
>>
>>>
Biogeography is just a pompous "academic" (in the
worst sense) waste of
>>> time!
Putting aside, for present purposes, the vast issue of
marine
>>> biogeography, chance
transoceanic dispersal of terrestrials is
>>>*unlikely*,
>>> yes, but all that means is that it
isn't going to happen lots of times
>>>in a
>>>
short stretch of time. Given many millions of years, it can
still
>>>happen
>>> often enough to be a significant
factor. There seems to be a slide from
>>> "unlikely to happen" to
"can't happen"! Any academic discipline
which
>>>is
>>> based ultimately on chance events
is not going to be very useful!
>>>
Biogeography ... we don't need to know! The existence of
sister taxa on
>>> adjacent islands
(or other landmasses) can be explained equally well by
>>> dispersal (since dispersal is most
likely to happen between adjacent
>>> landmasses) or by vicariance
(since vicariance is most likely to happen
>>> between adjacent landmasses)!
>>>
>>>
Stephen
>>>
>>>
--------------------------------------------
>>> On Sun, 26/4/15, Richard Pyle
<deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
wrote:
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom]
Forgotting at the edge of miracles
>>> To: "'Anthony
Gill'" <gill.anthony at gmail.com>,
"'Karl Magnacca'" <
>>> kmagnacca at wesleyan.edu>
>>> Cc:
"'TAXACOM'" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>,
"'Dr. Antonio Lopez'" <
>>> cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu>
>>> Received: Sunday, 26 April,
2015, 12:35 AM
>>>
>>> The same argument could
>>> be applied to ANY model of
biogeography (dispersal,
>>>
vicariance, panbiogeography, etc., etc.) That is, any
>>> presumption that any single
model accounts for every pattern
>>> (or even most patterns) is, in
my opinion, naïve. This is
>>>
not to say that, in the end, one model does not dominate.
>>> But we are SO, SO, SO far away
from understanding both
>>>
evolutionary history and the actual distribution patterns
of
>>> most living things, that
only people who don't really
>>> understand the nature of
biodiversity make claims that we
>>> are close to fully understanding
it.
>>>
>>> Aloha,
>>> Rich
>>>
>>>
>>> > -----Original
>>> Message-----
>>> > From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
>>> On Behalf Of
>>> > Anthony Gill
>>> > Sent: Saturday, April 25,
2015 1:12 AM
>>> > To: Karl
Magnacca
>>> > Cc:
>>> TAXACOM; Dr. Antonio Lopez
>>> > Subject: Re:
>>> [Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge
of miracles
>>> >
>>> > Of course, there are
>>> other from beyond
panbiogeography that are concerned
>>> > that dispersal explanations
should not be
>>> given a
first-order explanation for
>>>
>
>>> everything in
biogeography. There is pattern to be
>>> discovered and explored. A
>>> > presumption
>>> of dispersal as an explanation
for everything makes for
>>> >
uninteresting, and ultimately irrelevant,
>>> research. I want no part of
that.
>>> >
>>> > Tony
>>> >
>>> > On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at
10:55 AM, Karl
>>> Magnacca
>>> > <kmagnacca at wesleyan.edu>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2015
13:24:32
>>> "Dr. Antonio
Lopez"
>>> > >
>>> <cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu>
>>> wrote:
>>> > > > Colleague:
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> Thank you for the article of
Head. Only when I read
>>>
everything I am
>>> > >
> able to
>>> understand and
to reason. I never understood that
>>> supposed
>>> > > > difference
between
>>> dispersalism and
vicariancism as different
>>>
> > > schools.
>>>
>
>>> >
>>> > > That's because
>>> they're not. It's only
in the mind of
>>>
panbiogeograpy
>>> > >
supporters like
>>> Grehan and
Heads, who promote the idea that because
>>> > > rare trans-oceanic
dispersal is
>>> unlikely, that
therefore it never
>>> >
>
>>> happens (while
simultaneously claiming that they say no such
>>> thing,
>>> > > invoking the undefined
term
>>> "regular
dispersal") that such a dichotomy
>>> > > exists.
>>> > >
>>> > > Karl
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>>
_______________________________________________
>>> > > Taxacom Mailing
List
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>>> > > The Taxacom Archive
back to 1992 may
>>> be searched
at:
>>> > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>> > >
>>> > > Celebrating
>>> 28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Dr Anthony C. Gill
>>> >
>>> Natural History Curator
>>> > A12 Macleay
>>> Museum
>>> > University of Sydney
>>> > NSW 2006
>>> >
>>> Australia.
>>> >
>>> > Ph.
>>> +61 02 9036 6499
>>> >
>>>
_______________________________________________
>>> > Taxacom Mailing List
>>> >
>>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> > The Taxacom Archive back to
1992 may be
>>> searched at:
>>> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>> >
>>> > Celebrating 28 years
>>> of Taxacom in 2015.
>>>
>>>
_______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
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>>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992
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>>> searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>>
>>>
Celebrating 28 years of
>>>
Taxacom in 2015.
>>>
>>>
_______________________________________________
>>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992
may be searched at:
>>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>>
>>>
Celebrating 28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--
>Dr Anthony C. Gill
>Natural History Curator
>A12 Macleay Museum
>University of Sydney
>NSW 2006
>Australia.
>
>Ph. +61 02 9036
6499
>_______________________________________________
>Taxacom Mailing List
>Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
searched at:
>http://taxacom.markmail.org
>
>Celebrating 28 years
of Taxacom in 2015.
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