[Taxacom] Masteria mystery" solved?

[stuart longhorn]

Hi all., Re: Masteria mystery
Having actually stared down a dissecting microscope at diplurid spiders this week, i feel that rather than needing complex scenarios to explain unusual biogeography, perhaps instead the combination of few poorly-defined putative synapomorphies and series of poor taxonomic judgements have simply converged to make yet another genus urgently in need of serious revision with modern tools and techniques.
As with any taxonomic group, it's probably very valuable to first consider if the genus is actually monophyletic, and whether the few characters alleged to support the group (such as reduction from 8 to 6 eyes) are actually robust synapomorphies, for example considering whether eye reduction actually commonly appears convergently... as i think most of us know for cave adapted invertebrates. 
As for Euagrus in Taiwan, it appears nobody has looked much at E. formosanus Saito 1933 nor E. atropurpureus Purcell 1903 since their initial descriptions (see below* which probably explains the ? in Platnick's catalog), nor at I.indicola Tikader 1969, and as none of these original authors were exactly luminaries in the world of mygalomorphs, nor flawless in other generic placements, i'm just suggesting some revision of type specimens (if they even exist or can be found - see *) and consideration of generic definitions might be needed before anyone rushes off to the caves of Borneo in a desperate bid to explain some alleged unusual biogeography.
I think careful reconsideration of old rogue species with exceptional localities might actually solve such mysteries ** - I just can't believe this needs saying to some on a mailing list full of taxonomists!
Regardsstuart longhorn
*See Coyle (1988), on p223 he says: "MISPLACED SPECIES: As I have previously demonstrated (Coyle, 1984), Evagrus atropurpureus Purcell (1903) is neither a species of Euagrus nor of Allothele. Both Evagrus caffer Pocock (1902) and Evagrus regnardi Benoit (1964) are species of Allothele (Coyle, 1984). The holotype of Euagrus formosanus Saito (1933), a female, was apparently "lost in Hokkaido during world War II" (T.Yaginuma, personal commun.). The published description and illustrations are not very informative (there is no information on the spermathecae), but are sufficient to show that this spider is not a species of Euagrus." In Coyle (1988). A Revision of the American funnel-web mygalomorph spider genus Euagrus (Araneae, dipluridae). Bull. Amer. Mus. Nat. Hist. 187(3):203-292** Why Coyle just didn't say nomen dubium or at least species inquirenda at some point is beyond me...
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 13:05:07 -0500
> From: "John Grehan" <jgrehan at sciencebuff.org>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] "Masteria mystery" solved?
> To: <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Message-ID:
> 	<26DA12164B238549B6D89A2F2A8EE799028263A4 at bmsmail.sciencebuff.org>
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> 
> There is no empirical basis for this or any such 'center of origin' for Masteria. Might as well suggest they came from Mars.
> 
> John Grehan
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth Kinman
> Sent: Wednesday, January 11, 2012 12:34 PM
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Subject: [Taxacom] "Masteria mystery" solved?
> 
> Hi Michael,  
> ??????Well, I suggested that the center of origin of
> Masteria was in the Antarctica area.  Antarctica itself was relatively
> warm in the Mesozoic, but might have not been warm enough for Masteria,
> unless they retreated into caves during the winter months (which is
> possible, since many Masteria seem to like caves).    
>    
>       However, I would lean more toward an origin a bit further north
> (perhaps Argentina).  Argentina is likely where the entire Subfamily
> Masteriinae would have originated.              ??????
> ????????????????????????--------Ken
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?    
> P.S. I wonder if anyone has explored any caves in Borneo looking for
> Masteria. ? 
> ---------------------------------------------- 
> Michael Heads wrote: 
> Hi Ken, 
> ? I'm not quite sure that I follow your line of reasoning. Are you
> suggesting a center of origin for Masteria in Antarctica? Platnick (AMNH
> 
> spider website) does not accept that the Indian species of?Ischnothele
> 
> belongs in the genus?(America/India would be a very unusual
> distribution). He lists Euagrus from Taiwan, Guatemala to USA (standard
> trans-tropical Pacific) and?South Africa (standard
> trans-Atlantic).?The Atlantic opened about the same time that the
> central Pacific plateaus formed (mid-Cretaceous), which suggests a
> simple global?process for Euagrus.? ? 
> I don't think?Masteria is (currently) an?island-hopper?-?all the
> 
> species in the Caribbean and all but one in the Pacific are endemic to
> single archipelagos, compatible with allopatric differentiation?in a
> phase of immobilism. On the other hand,?its Cretaceous ancestors may
> well have been actively dispersing?when they colonized the?new areas
> 
> of land provided by the plateaus (possibly from prior islands in the
> region).?? You suggest Mesozoic vicariance for Masteria and I
> agree.?The?large igneous plateaus?in the central Pacific?have
> drifted long distances westward (Ontong Java plateau etc.) and eastward
> (Inca plateau etc.). They?included forest (or at least trees) and
> presumably there were also animals there, so... what happened to
> them??Could they have been incorporated into America along with the
> plateaus??This might?explain?the distinctive distribution of
> Masteria in America (only in the Caribbean), and in the west Pacific
> (west only to New Guinea -?Philippines). ? Michael 
> Wellington, New Zealand. 
> My papers on biogeography: http://tiny.cc/HeadsPubs My new book
> 'Molecular Panbiogeography of the Tropics': http://tiny.cc/MolPanbio 
> ________________________________? 
> ?From: Kenneth Kinman <kennethkinman at webtv.net> 
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu 
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 3:53 AM 
> Subject: [Taxacom] "Masteria mystery" solved? 
> ? 
> Hi Michael,? ? ? ? ? ? 
> ? ? I think I've solved a lot of the mystery surrounding the
> Masteria disjunction.? And thankfully, I didn't need either
> panbiogeography or terranes floating long distances east and west across
> 
> the Pacific.? 
> ? ? ? I looked beyond subfamily Masteriinae to other subfamilies
> of Dipluridae, and the distribution of Ischnothele jumped out at me
> (neotropics plus one species in India).? Euagrus is somewhat similar,
> but involved South Africa instead of India.? ? ? ? This pretty
> clearly points to vicariance (during the Mesozoic) centered far to the
> south (in the area of Antarctica), and of course any intermediate
> species still in the southern polar region would have eventually gone
> extinct (from the cold in particular).? ? ? ? So subsequent
> dispersal of Masteria (by rafting, ballooning, or whatever) would have
> been over shorter distances, perhaps the longest being east to Fiji.?
> This genus is clearly a fairly good island-hopper (in both the Pacific
> and Caribbean).? On the other hand, genus Ischnothele didn't need to
> island-hop, but simply rode on India as it travelled north to Asia.? 
> ? ? Therefore, I predict that Masteria will be found on other
> islands in the Pacific, perhaps even Borneo.? However, diplurid
> spiders seem to have had little luck invading very much of Eurasia
> beyond the area around India, so competitive exclusion by other
> mygalomorphs could be a factor (perhaps even in Borneo). ? ? ? ?
> 
> ? ? --------Ken Kinman? 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 21:00:53 GMT
> From: Kenneth Kinman <kennethkinman at webtv.net>
> Subject: [Taxacom] "Masteria mystery" solved?
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Message-ID: <COL103-DS16776BF5C45220405DE25AA09E0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
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> John,         
>       Well, at least I could point to actual specimens of all three
> genera of Masteriinae from Argentina and Chile and northern South
> America.  This seems more empirical than Michael's story that the "lost"
> 
> Inca Plateau might have carried them to South America from the central
> Pacific.  You can't collect spiders on the Inca Plateau (assuming that
> it existed), because this hypothetical plateau got subducted under South
> 
> America (which is why they call it the "lost" Inca Plateau).      
>           ---------Ken