Taxacom: Taxacom Digest, Vol 233, Issue 4

Wed Sep 17 11:35:49 CDT 2025

Leslie - interesting comments. The terms 'avoid' and 'competition' are
tricky as they can pertain to foresight (I avoid walking on a cliff edge to
avoid falling off) to circumstantial 'avoidence' (I live in suburbia that
does not have tigers roaming loose, so I 'avoid' being eaten by tigers).
The former is teleological, the latter is not. So as I see it, what the
issue comes down to is whether 'avoidance' of 'competition' and predation
(what portion of intertidal species do not endure 'competition' do not
get predated - and how does that differ from marine or fully terrestrial
situations?) has anything to do with the origins of those species. I am
arguing that there is no evidence to suggest that these ecological
characteristics have anything to do with the origin of terrestrial life.
It's not as if some one species managed to first survive on land, but a
whole ecosystem comprising a multitude of species. Even among extant
organisms there are innumerable examples of tectonic uplift where upland or
montane taxa have their closest relatives on the coast. Funny thing is that
while Darwin saw the obvious origin of fossil sea shells in the mountains
(Andes if I recall correctly) he failed to see that possibility for animals
and plants (well, perhaps not so surprising given the multitude of
subsequent evolutionists who also failed to see this possibility). And the
converse is true - that coastal species may be subject to subsidence and
even tectonic displacement.

Cheers, John

On Wed, Sep 17, 2025 at 11:11 AM Leslie Watling via Taxacom <
taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:

> Those of us who have studied life in the marine intertidal have known for
> about 50 years, through both observation and experiment, that tide pools
> and shallow inshore zones are places where species can avoid competition
> and predation. Along with that, in order to survive in the widely
> fluctuating conditions the intertidal offers, the species generally have to
> be physiologically capable, which would "pre-adapt" them for land
> colonization, I suppose.
>
> Whether tectonic uplift or some other factor was involved in the case of
> fished, who knows. But there is nothing wrong with the statement about
> avoiding competition and predation.
>
>
> Les Watling
> Professor Emeritus
> School of Life Sciences
> University of Hawaii
>
> Professor Emeritus
> School of Marine Sciences
> University of Maine
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2025 at 1:00 PM <taxacom-request at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > Daily News from the Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > When responding to a message, please do not copy the entire digest into
> > your reply.
> > ____________________________________
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. initial terrestrial transitions (John Grehan)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2025 12:38:08 -0400
> > From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> > To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > Subject: Taxacom: initial terrestrial transitions
> > Message-ID:
> >         <CADN0ud3qbFq5ehNBBVq=0usd4nmoPcmsCFriCUfO9EpUU=
> > 33cw at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> >
> > Happened to see a pop note on the web titled "New Fossil Trackways Reveal
> > Fish Left The Ocean 10 Million Years Earlier Than Thought" I guess some
> > people still think the oldest fossil is the oldest origin - until
> falsified
> > by an earlier fossil that is earlier 'than thought' (perhaps someone
> > should stop thinking).
> >
> > The referenced article is Szrek et al 2025 "Traces of dipnoan fish
> document
> > the earliest adaptations of vertebrates to move on land" (open access).
> >
> > Authors make a couple of interesting points: "The process of vertebrate
> > terrestrialisation was therefore multi-staged, suggesting that the
> ability
> > to walk and/or near-walking in very shallow water may have existed even
> > before the appearance of tetrapods." They actually used the term
> > pre-adaptation. To me this is fine.
> >
> > But then they say "By moving towards land, the fishes avoided competition
> > and predation, gaining access
> > to new feeding areas." This is where teleology starts to creep in. They
> do
> > not elaborate, but the purposeful nature of the event is evident. The
> > authors, along with just about everyone else in paleontology (as far as I
> > know) fail to consider tectonic uplift as the key process that imposes an
> > increasingly terrestrial situation for coastal organisms that become
> > sufficiently stranded. Those with the critical 'preadaptations' survive,
> > and under those newer conditions will continue to evolve. those that do
> > not, do not. Simple as that.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > John Grehan
> >
> > --
> >
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