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Taxacom: iguana interview

John Grehan calabar.john at gmail.com
Tue May 6 09:29:42 CDT 2025 

Lucas,

Thanks for the feedback. Not sure who you are referring to about the
Cyclura distribution being 'odd' - was not me. Agreed that the pattern is
found in other taxa, but your statement " certain groups of Melastomataceae
and so on, are geologically too young for geological processes of island
development to have underlain this distribution." This assertion is based
on what?

Cheers, John

On Tue, May 6, 2025 at 7:36?AM Majure,Lucas C <lmajure at floridamuseum.ufl.edu>
wrote:

> *Cyclura* seems to be following a pattern that is incredibly common in
> plants, with many genera, or species groups restricted to the Greater
> Antilles. This has often led to dispersal among the islands of the Greater
> Antilles but with no longer distance dispersal outside of the islands into
> adjacent islands of the Caribbean or continental America. Also, essentially
> all of these groups of plants, such as *Leptocereus* (Cactaceae), certain
> groups of Melastomataceae and so on, are geologically too young for
> geological processes of island development to have underlain this
> distribution. So, I don?t find the *Cyclura* pattern odd at all. These
> *Cyclura* also happen to eat some of the plants with this same
> distribution, such as *Leptocereus*.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Lucas C. Majure, Ph.D.
>
> Associate Curator
>
> Keeper, University of Florida Herbarium (FLAS)
>
> Florida Museum of Natural History
>
> University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611
>
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>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> on behalf of John Grehan
> via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> *Date: *Tuesday, May 6, 2025 at 12:20 AM
> *To: *
> *Cc: *taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> *Subject: *Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>
> [External Email]
>
> All this discussion about dispersal got me to take a closer look at Cyclura
> - last time was over two decades ago. Interesting (to me) is that of the 11
> species I found listed, only two are perhaps sympatric on Hispaniola.Others
> are allopatric - barring any marginal overlap (but need to yet read over a
> paper that may have other information). So, with all this imagined rafting,
> species land up on different places, and yet not on the mainland of Central
> and South America or North America or lesser Antilles. But makes sense in a
> tectonic context of ancestral Cyclura range being fragmented and
> reorganized with movement of the northern edge of the Caribbean plate.
> Happy to send my draft map to anyone interested. But if anyone knows of a
> comprehensive published source of distributions for all species that would
> be of interest to read. My current map is mostly from listings of islands
> occupied.
>
> Cheers, John Grehan
>
> On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 12:46?AM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Geoff  - Got a bit lost with your reasoning. I have no problem with 'long
> > distance' dispersal or short distance dispersal. After all, taxa that
> have
> > a near global distribution had to disperse over a 'long distance."
> > Dispersal certainly explains species having a geographic range. That's an
> > ecological reality. But the Fiji iguana argument is that a unique one off
> > chance dispersal event led to the origin of iguanas in Fiji. However one
> > might imagine this as a possibility (just as I might imagine that moa
> > ancestor swam across the Tasman Sea), imagining is not science. Science
> is
> > about evidence and there is simply no evidence that the origin of the
> Fiji
> > species are derived from rafting across the Pacific from America. Cheers,
> > John
> >
> > On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 12:00?AM Geoff Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> >
> >> Yes. Explained won't wash if you don't accept long-distance rafting is
> >> possible.
> >>
> >> However (this is trivial but it's one basis of John's argument technique
> >> - change the wording of the discussion to keywords within his belief
> >> system) ...
> >>
> >> (Lead author) Iguanas "reaching small islands surrounded by deep-ocean
> >> environment" (implied initial colony-founding event) and (John Grehan)
> >> Iguanas "establish(ing) multi island metapopulations" (implied that
> >> movement from one population to another is and has been occurring
> >> regularly).
> >>
> >> Which wording most clearly describes the likely situation?
> >>
> >> Geoff
> >> --
> >> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> >> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> >> gread at actrix.gen.nz
> >>
> >> ---- Original Message ----
> >> *From*: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> >> *To*: "Geoff Read" <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
> >> *Cc*: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> >> *Sent*: Mon, May 5, 2025, 12:33 PM
> >> *Subject*: Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
> >>
> >> " explained how iguana lineages from South America dispersed so easily
> >> throughout the Caribbean & The Bahamas, with some reaching small islands
> >> surrounded by deep-ocean environment"
> >>
> >> It does not. It just shows that iguanas in the Caribbean can establish
> >> multi island metapopulations. If to the contrary, interested in what
> >> purports to be evidence.
> >>
> >> On Sun, May 4, 2025 at 7:42?PM Geoff Read via Taxacom <
> >> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Missed that the article was actually from five years ago in 2020, but
> >>> the lead author has just reposted it on social media for its relevance
> to
> >>> the Fiji rafting paper as that paper "explained how iguana lineages
> from
> >>> South America dispersed so easily throughout the Caribbean & The
> Bahamas,
> >>> with some reaching small islands surrounded by deep-ocean
> environments."
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> >>> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> >>> gread at actrix.gen.nz
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >---- Original Message ----
> >>> >From: Geoff Read via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >>> >To: "John Grehan" <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> >>> >Cc: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> >>> >Sent: Mon, May 5, 2025, 11:20 AM
> >>> >Subject: Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
> >>> >
> >>> >For further recent news on iguana dispersal - a Bahamas trace fossil
> >>> placed as an iguana nest burrow:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheconversation.com%2Fwe-discovered-a-115-000-year-old-iguana-nest-fossil-in-the-bahamas-151270&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4cab11bcf8c94dacd79708dd8caa86e6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821386224405475%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XTl%2BWwUkivbnsuBXfcH302Rt2AIK%2FYkNrPP8FJOE5KY%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheconversation.com%2Fwe-discovered-a-115-000-year-old-iguana-nest-fossil-in-the-bahamas-151270&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4cab11bcf8c94dacd79708dd8caa86e6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821386224427576%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Aq3IS2aGm6bbAwxohrJv%2Ffh7LvyPFtTO5oJ3h516wwY%3D&reserved=0>
> >>> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0242935&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4cab11bcf8c94dacd79708dd8caa86e6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821386224448019%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lcC71B3nEnk%2BBXlRfHZSE0a%2FPwk2FqtKrRgcEsxdE4I%3D&reserved=0
> <https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0242935&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4cab11bcf8c94dacd79708dd8caa86e6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821386224466180%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3KzeHysTHDGZpD8dKXqI3dCo%2Fz%2FvutxVAddVxdlaUSg%3D&reserved=0>
> >>> >
> >>> >"This fossil iguana burrow also establishes a minimum time for iguanas
> >>> on San Salvador during the Middle-Late Pleistocene, which can be
> applied to
> >>> better understanding the biogeographic dispersal of Cyclura throughout
> The
> >>> Bahamas during the Pleistocene and Holocene"
> >>> >
> >>> >They discuss alternative explanations. Always possible with trace
> >>> fossils.
> >>> >
> >>> >--
> >>> >Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> >>> >Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> >>> >gread at actrix.gen.nz
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >>---- Original Message ----
> >>> >>From: John Grehan via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> >>> >>To: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> >>> >>Sent: Mon, May 5, 2025, 5:47 AM
> >>> >>Subject: Re: Taxacom: igunana interview
> >>> >>
> >>> >>ps -  Note the interviewers reference to it sounding like a Disney
> >>> Movie -
> >>> >>hint of cognitive dissonance that on one hand the interviewer has to
> >>> >>swallow this stuff given the 'authority' of the source while on the
> >>> other
> >>> >>some deeper common sense says it sounds pretty absurd.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>On Sun, May 4, 2025 at 1:05?PM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >>> Link below. Chance dispersal believers will love it. The content is
> >>> all
> >>> >>> about belief, not scientific methodology at all.
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> Ancient Iguanas Floated 5,000 Miles Across The Pacific
> >>> >>> <
> >>>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencefriday.com%2Fsegments%2Figuanas-cross-the-pacific-to-fiji%2F%23segment-transcript&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C4cab11bcf8c94dacd79708dd8caa86e6%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638821386224480545%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=lLqHzKxH4gliQ8PGl3Wf6EZCcl3KIxFWKrttmiQk6Ys%3D&reserved=0
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> >>> >
> >>> >>>
> >>> >>> --
> >>> >>>
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> >>> site'
> >>> >
> >>> >
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> >>
> >
> > --
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> > link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> >
>
>
> --
>
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