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Taxacom: iguana interview

John Grehan calabar.john at gmail.com
Sun May 4 23:46:14 CDT 2025 

Geoff  - Got a bit lost with your reasoning. I have no problem with 'long
distance' dispersal or short distance dispersal. After all, taxa that have
a near global distribution had to disperse over a 'long distance."
Dispersal certainly explains species having a geographic range. That's an
ecological reality. But the Fiji iguana argument is that a unique one off
chance dispersal event led to the origin of iguanas in Fiji. However one
might imagine this as a possibility (just as I might imagine that moa
ancestor swam across the Tasman Sea), imagining is not science. Science is
about evidence and there is simply no evidence that the origin of the Fiji
species are derived from rafting across the Pacific from America. Cheers,
John

On Mon, May 5, 2025 at 12:00?AM Geoff Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz> wrote:

> Yes. Explained won't wash if you don't accept long-distance rafting is
> possible.
>
> However (this is trivial but it's one basis of John's argument technique -
> change the wording of the discussion to keywords within his belief system)
> ...
>
> (Lead author) Iguanas "reaching small islands surrounded by deep-ocean
> environment" (implied initial colony-founding event) and (John Grehan)
> Iguanas "establish(ing) multi island metapopulations" (implied that
> movement from one population to another is and has been occurring
> regularly).
>
> Which wording most clearly describes the likely situation?
>
> Geoff
> --
> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> gread at actrix.gen.nz
>
> ---- Original Message ----
> *From*: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> *To*: "Geoff Read" <gread at actrix.gen.nz>
> *Cc*: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> *Sent*: Mon, May 5, 2025, 12:33 PM
> *Subject*: Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>
> " explained how iguana lineages from South America dispersed so easily
> throughout the Caribbean & The Bahamas, with some reaching small islands
> surrounded by deep-ocean environment"
>
> It does not. It just shows that iguanas in the Caribbean can establish
> multi island metapopulations. If to the contrary, interested in what
> purports to be evidence.
>
> On Sun, May 4, 2025 at 7:42?PM Geoff Read via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>> Missed that the article was actually from five years ago in 2020, but the
>> lead author has just reposted it on social media for its relevance to the
>> Fiji rafting paper as that paper "explained how iguana lineages from South
>> America dispersed so easily throughout the Caribbean & The Bahamas, with
>> some reaching small islands surrounded by deep-ocean environments."
>>
>> --
>> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
>> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
>> gread at actrix.gen.nz
>>
>>
>>
>> >---- Original Message ----
>> >From: Geoff Read via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>> >To: "John Grehan" <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> >Cc: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> >Sent: Mon, May 5, 2025, 11:20 AM
>> >Subject: Re: Taxacom: iguana interview
>> >
>> >For further recent news on iguana dispersal - a Bahamas trace fossil
>> placed as an iguana nest burrow:
>> >
>> >
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheconversation.com%2Fwe-discovered-a-115-000-year-old-iguana-nest-fossil-in-the-bahamas-151270&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3581e823c52e4b42b62f08dd8b8fd99f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638820172137616687%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ShmqPaUGnEZ5u2OyDmjFQMg%2B4A7%2BfJJx57TRP1fHSm4%3D&reserved=0
>> >https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdoi.org%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0242935&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3581e823c52e4b42b62f08dd8b8fd99f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638820172143272979%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PYLyI2Ce6JHCOzOPThSCmxvXHbwJyvpMgSHa8SSJ60Y%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> >"This fossil iguana burrow also establishes a minimum time for iguanas
>> on San Salvador during the Middle-Late Pleistocene, which can be applied to
>> better understanding the biogeographic dispersal of Cyclura throughout The
>> Bahamas during the Pleistocene and Holocene"
>> >
>> >They discuss alternative explanations. Always possible with trace
>> fossils.
>> >
>> >--
>> >Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
>> >Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
>> >gread at actrix.gen.nz
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>---- Original Message ----
>> >>From: John Grehan via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
>> >>To: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> >>Sent: Mon, May 5, 2025, 5:47 AM
>> >>Subject: Re: Taxacom: igunana interview
>> >>
>> >>ps -  Note the interviewers reference to it sounding like a Disney
>> Movie -
>> >>hint of cognitive dissonance that on one hand the interviewer has to
>> >>swallow this stuff given the 'authority' of the source while on the
>> other
>> >>some deeper common sense says it sounds pretty absurd.
>> >>
>> >>On Sun, May 4, 2025 at 1:05?PM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Link below. Chance dispersal believers will love it. The content is
>> all
>> >>> about belief, not scientific methodology at all.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ancient Iguanas Floated 5,000 Miles Across The Pacific
>> >>> <
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencefriday.com%2Fsegments%2Figuanas-cross-the-pacific-to-fiji%2F%23segment-transcript&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3581e823c52e4b42b62f08dd8b8fd99f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638820172143286644%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=3R5YiRlArRroqDP2i1YnF1Tq1%2FPZootQBsxM96LOk9I%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C3581e823c52e4b42b62f08dd8b8fd99f%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638820172143299464%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=6%2Frkr08CtSJU6nt%2BNjRYHlOuHTmBn0KP3GbGNIamGqc%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web
>> site'
>> >
>> >
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>
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>
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