Taxacom: Mandatory ending correction after 226 years of wrong usage - the Dasytes case

Thu Jan 30 08:14:37 CST 2025

Hi Doug,
You gave a long list of masculine names ending in -tes, which are
uncontroversial, but also: 'Agriotes, Gaurotes, Lipotes, and Microtes are
feminine. You have to look each one up, you can't just look at the ending
and guess'.  I disagree - Agriotes (100s of species) is always treated as
masculine (from the epithets at GBIF), as is Lipotes - one species
vexillifer - masculine. (I think it was a simple mistake to treat Gaurotes
and Microtes (very few species) as feminine).

The ending -tes isn't 'lawless' - it can either mean 'abstract quantity'
(-itas in Latin, -ity in English, -idad in Spanish) in which case it is
feminine. Or it can simply mean 'the one/s', and this is masculine. I think
ALL the genus names in -tes are the latter - who would name a genus
'hairiness'  (Dasytes) or 'fieldness' (Agriotes)? The actual meaning is
'the hairy one/s' or 'field one/s' - masculine. The 19th century authors
just slapped -tes on any word as a general ending (cf. Socrates,
Philoctetes, stratiotes - soldier, polites - citizen), e.g. the genus
Eremotes. This is why no-one is suggesting changing Agriotes or Lipotes to
feminine, and likewise there is no reason to change the many epithets in
Dasytes, as. Dasytes doesn't mean 'hairiness' but 'the hairy one/s'. This
also explains why the earlier author made such a point of treating it as
masculine.
   Richard - thanks for the tip on Monotes. Yes, masculine. Because it
doesn't mean 'oneness' or 'uniqueness' (feminine), but 'the only one'
(masculine), i.e. the only dipterocarp in Africa.

On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 2:02 PM Richard Littauer <richard.littauer at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Monotes is also a masculine noun, spelled differently in Greek:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perseus.tufts.edu%2Fhopper%2Fmorph%3Fl%3Dmonwths%26la%3Dgreek%23lexicon&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cec12d901d9964fb9c0f008dd4138753d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638738436063893809%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C80000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=TMZtr%2FCfTkYk1%2B8XVZGOg%2FkF91HpZ5Uep4aKnRcKYPg%3D&reserved=0.
>
> The Code doesn't tell you what to do if there are two genders for the same
> transliteration from different Greek words. Wish I could tell you more.
>
> R
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2025 at 1:59 PM Douglas Yanega via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
>> On 1/29/25 4:37 PM, Michael Heads wrote:
>> > I was trying to figure out why the authors formerly treated Dasytes as
>> > masculine, and why Monotes is still treated as masculine.
>> > Here's something from GreekPod on -tes as a masculine ending (it isn't
>> > listed in the list of feminine endings):
>> > *-ης*Examples: ο λογιστής (/o loyistís/) meaning “the accountant”; ο
>> > υπολογιστής (/o ipoloyistís/) meaning “the computer”; ο πελάτης (/o
>> > pelátis/) meaning “the customer”; ο μαθητής (/o mathitís/) meaning
>> > “the student.”
>> >
>> > Following the argument for Dasytes being feminine, should Monotes be
>> > treated as feminine? Or does it depend on the root rather than the
>> suffix?
>>
>> Monotes is a tree, and governed by a different Code, but it IS a Greek
>> noun, and it is feminine:
>>
>> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.perseus.tufts.edu%2Fhopper%2Fmorph%3Fl%3Dmonoths%26la%3Dgreek&data=05%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cec12d901d9964fb9c0f008dd4138753d%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638738436063909389%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C80000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=tz3mzkqI%2BKgZ7%2BT9scMM6TaIkP8cMyIQk%2FJhBRReHHc%3D&reserved=0
>>
>> Apparently "unity" qualifies as "a state of being". The most literal
>> English translation of monotes would be "oneness", just as for dasytes
>> it would be "hairiness".
>>
>> The genders of tree genera are a bewildering morass, however, so I can't
>> tell you what's correct for Monotes.
>>
>> That said, as I noted, these endings are not always suffixes, and do not
>> have fixed gender. If the entire name is not in a standard Greek
>> dictionary, and there is no etymology given by the author, you're likely
>> to have trouble.
>>
>> I have in my notes that Arotes, Chirotes, Colotes, Ecrizotes, Nesiotes,
>> Taeniotes, and Toxotes are masculine, but Agriotes, Gaurotes, Lipotes,
>> and Microtes are feminine. You have to look each one up, you can't just
>> look at the ending and guess.
>>
>> Peace,
>>
>> --
>> Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology       Entomology Research Museum
>> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314  voicemail:951-827-8704
>> FaceBook: Doug Yanega (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
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>
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