Taxacom: Mandatory ending correction after 226 years of wrong usage - the Dasytes case

[John Grehan]

Doug - thanks for the comment. Not sure if I comprehend all of the
argument, but appreciate the elaboration. Certainly capable of making an
unfair assessment. When you say "Lepidoptera as the one one discipline in
all of zoology that does not accept the rules of gender agreement" I
realize that I am not even aware of this being a 'rule' for Lepidoptera,
just vaguely aware of it as a prevailing usage by many taxonomists within
Lepidoptera. Not even sure if that is consistent within the family with
which I work. I only adopted the original name endings because some
prominent taxonomists took that choice and it was going to give me a
headache to go the other way.

When you say "*It is confusing to have a mix of genders*, and you can't
easily tell which are correct, and which are wrong" If one has a mix of
genders it does not matter which are correct and which are wrong if it does
not matter?

" If you abandon gender agreement, things get VERY confusing, indeed, for a
LOT of names" I don't doubt that this may be the case for other groups, but
so far it has not been a confusing situation for my group, at least as far
as I am aware.

Cheers, John

On Wed, Jan 29, 2025 at 6:44 PM Douglas Yanega via Taxacom <
taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:

> On 1/29/25 12:42 PM, John Grehan via Taxacom wrote:
> > This is a good example of why I go with the original form of the species
> > name regardless of gender rather than try to follow the code requirement
> > (which seems to me to be more about Latin or Greek grammar than about
> > having stable name labels.
>
> Slightly unfair of you to say this, since you work on Lepidoptera, the
> one discipline in all of zoology that does not accept the rules of
> gender agreement.
>
> Second, you seem to be using a different definition of stability than
> what the Code uses. Remember, under the Code, striata, striatus, and
> striatum are all the same name. Changing one variant to another is not a
> change in spelling, and is not instability. Instability is *when
> taxonomists disagree* on what name/spelling/variant to use. The Code's
> concept of stability/instability is more akin to the dichotomy between
> consensus and dispute, and not the sense of "never changing". Names can
> change a LOT without creating instability, as long as all taxonomists
> adopt the changes.
>
> Allow me to demonstrate with a concrete example.
>
> Consider the following list of bumblebee names:
>
> Bombus asiatica
>
> Bombus bohemicus
>
> Bombus brodmannicus
>
> Bombus californicus
>
> Bombus lapponica
>
> Bombus oceanica
>
> Bombus pensylvanica
>
> Bombus persicus
>
> Bombus sibiricus
>
> Bombus sporadicus
>
> Bombus turkestanicus
>
> All but two of these use the original spelling. Can you tell which two
> of those names does not? *It is confusing to have a mix of genders*, and
> you can't easily tell which are correct, and which are wrong.
>
> Under the Code, all of these end in "-icus", and there is no room for
> confusion. Even under YOUR definition of stability, reverting to
> original spellings creates a massive amount of instability, because you
> won't find any bumblebee names ending in "-ica" in the literature, and
> quite a few bumblebees were originally named in Apis, a feminine genus.
> This would create disagreement among users of names as to which names
> they *should* use.
>
> Stability is *not being confused* as to the correct spelling of a name;
> where everyone treats it the same way. If you abandon gender agreement,
> things get VERY confusing, indeed, for a LOT of names.
>
> > Interesting that no reviewer has ever picked up
> > on that code transgression. Perhaps took the view to best let sleeping
> dogs
> > lie.
>
> Actually, that's not entirely true. A few authors post-1799 did treat
> Dasytes as feminine, at least upon occasion.
>
> These are some species named by the following authors:
>
> Dasytes nigrita Kiesenwetter, 1859
>
> Dasytes inexspectata Palm, 1974
>
> Eudasytes brunnipilosa Blaisdell, 1941
>
> and these are some usages by later authors of names treated as masculine
> by others:
>
> Dasytes (Dasytes) caerulea: Laporte, 1838
>
> Dasytes nigra: Blaisdell, 1938
>
> Apterodasytes paradoxa: Herman, 1976
>
> So the treatment of gender was not entirely uniform, historically,
> though these do not offer *much* evidence for a dissenting opinion.
>
> Peace,
>
> --
> Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology       Entomology Research Museum
> Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314  voicemail:951-827-8704
> FaceBook: Doug Yanega (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
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