Taxacom: museum access

[John Grehan]

Thanks David. That soap carving example is almost beyond belief. I get the
impression that these days museums generally do not loan out types (at
least in my field) which can be frustrating, but is understandable. I was a
little irate about that restriction in the past, but appreciate the caution
now. I was very fortunate to have been able to work on a major study with
loaned types. Otherwise would have been severely limited in that respect.

As for access - there certainly can be justifiable contingencies. To me,
the bizarre nature of this claimed instance is that a prominent journal
allowed it to be stated without any reason for denial being given. As it
stands, it reads as a statement of fact, but implies a judgement of
unfairness to the institution referenced.

I know of two instances of type access being denied. One where a bribe was
required and then after that access was still denied (wanted more money on
the spot), the other that the museum was beholden to a clique of
researchers who wanted to retain control over access. This is sometimes
just how science 'works'.

Cheers, John


On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 10:11?AM David Campbell via Taxacom <
taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:

> While curating a collection, my brother discovered the head of the type
> specimen of a caecilian.  Contact with the museum housing the type revealed
> that the borrower had substituted a soap carving of the head in order to
> keep studying the skull beyond the deadline to return it.  And it is
> discouraging to go to a museum and find a note that the specimen was loaned
> out over a decade ago to someone who is now dead.  Some taxonomists do give
> museums some justification for being cautious.  I have no information about
> the particular incident John mentions, though.
>
> On Tue, Apr 15, 2025 at 6:34?PM John Grehan via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > One of the vivotal foundations of taxonomy is the ability to verify or
> > falsify based on voucher material. I understand that this condition is
> what
> > establishes taxonomy as a science. Naturally access to specimens is not
> > always feasible, but in principle is available given sufficient resources
> > (e.g. to travel to a collection). One ehars occasionally of direct
> > examination being denied, perhaps in some cases justified, others perhaps
> > not. So it came to my attention in a 2014 paper "Life-history evolution
> and
> > mitogenomic phylogeny of caecilian
> >  amphibians" published in Molecular Phylogenetics and Evolution 73 (2014)
> > 177?189 (accessed at   Life_history_evolution_and_mitogenomic_p.pdf ) the
> > following statement:
> >
> > "Both specimens of Gymnopis included in this study (MVZ 171331 and MVZ
> > 179536) are listed as G. multiplicata in the catalogue of the Museum of
> > Vertebrate Zoology (University of California, Berkeley, USA) where they
> are
> > deposited. We were denied access to, and thus unable to examine, the
> > vouchers to re-evaluate their taxonomic assignment.
> >
> > This was 10 years ago, but wonder if anyone has insight to this? Just
> > curious.
> >
> > John Grehan
> >
> > --
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C08d2be00298547180b1108dd7d00165c%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638804161508436922%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ZNR6pKkMEwbeLa66zrHkVAIywn005dQfwRtzT5FvPug%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
> > link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Taxacom Mailing List
> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years, 1987-2025.
> >
> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> > For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> > https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
> taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Dr. David Campbell
> Professor, Geology
> Department of Natural Sciences
> 110 S Main St, #7270
> Gardner-Webb University
> Boiling Springs NC 28017
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for 38 years, 1987-2025.
>
> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
> https://lists.ku.edu/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at lists.ku.edu
>
>
>

-- 
https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data%7C02%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C08d2be00298547180b1108dd7d00165c%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638804161508477835%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata8HiOw3EZHm%2FDRfnIfeZ3ZDjeSGQoWlEURZshCjrx8U%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
link, then the 'Ghost Moth Research page' link.