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Taxacom: origin of Amerindians

John Grehan calabar.john at gmail.com
Wed Jul 12 10:42:17 CDT 2023 

But what is it about these papers that provides you with evidence for
doubting that "they got here by long distance (please define that)
transoceanic migration... More likely boating from Siberia along the coast
to our Pacific Northwest" As far as I can see, there is nothing in the
'coastal' hypothesis that precludes broader ocean travel (here the problem
is what defines 'coastal' travel vs coastal landings). Croizat suggested a
north Pacific track that may well be empirically indistinguishable from a
'coastal' route/s. Whether you call it coastal or anything else, Croizat
was, or was among, the first to seriously propose a non-terrestrial
mechanism, and at a time predating the anthropological story at that time.

On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 8:47 AM Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com> wrote:

> There is lots of evidence.  Just google "Beringia Standstill Hypothesis".
> And there is genetic evidence in papers like "Terminal Pleistocene Alaskan
> genome reveals first founding population of Native Americans":  Weblink:
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nature.com%2Farticles%2Fnature25173&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc8c898b9106a4e047f5908db82eea937%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638247733781864555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=4%2FLbRgMSPsPkgMYNRGQMt0hCxPYMdU2Z%2BENy0IAzwFM%3D&reserved=0
>                     -----------Ken
> P.S.  As for Polynesian traders getting to South America, that probably
> happened too, but probably later than the Beringia crossings and in
> relatively small  numbers.
> ------------------------------
> *From:* John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, July 11, 2023 10:34 PM
> *To:* Michael Heads <m.j.heads at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Kenneth Kinman <kinman at hotmail.com>; taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: Taxacom: origin of Amerindians
>
> Ken - nice to know that  you feel that you "personally doubt that they got
> here by long distance transoceanic migration... More likely boating from
> Siberia along the coast to our Pacific Northwest", but what is the nature
> of evidence by which you reach that conclusion? Science is not about what
> you believe, but the nature of the evidence by which you get to that
> belief.
>
> Cheers, John
>
> On Tue, Jul 11, 2023 at 11:05 PM Michael Heads via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> there's more and more evidence for early contacts between Polynesia and
> South America (traded obsidian with similar signatures, chicken DNA etc).
> The Polynesians were famously very skilled at long distance ocean travel.
>
> On Wed, Jul 12, 2023 at 2:49 PM Kenneth Kinman via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >        Not at all surprising.  Especially given the dating of Amerindian
> > footprints in New Mexico at about 23,000 years ago.  They could have
> easily
> > been there well before those footprints were made and then migrated south
> > to Brazil.  I personally doubt that they got here by long distance
> > transoceanic migration (Kon Tiki style long distance).   More likely
> > boating from Siberia along the coast to our Pacific Northwest.
> >                             ---------Ken Kinman
> > ________________________________
> > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> on behalf of John Grehan
> via
> > Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2023 9:24 PM
> > To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > Subject: Taxacom: origin of Amerindians
> >
> > Evidence for the age and origin of original peoples in the Americas is an
> > object lesson on fossils and other remains providing a minimum age
> estimate
> > as new finds continually push back the minimum age. Researchers have
> > now analyzed
> > pendants made of bony material from sloths and concluded that the carved
> > and polished shapes and drilled holes were the work of deliberate
> > craftsmanship. Dating of the ornaments and sediment at the Brazil site
> > where they were found point to an age of 25,000 to 27,000 years ago -
> > several thousand years before some earlier theories had suggested the
> first
> > people arrived in the Americas, after migrating out from Africa and then
> > Eurasia. Here the note is on 'some earlier theories' as the older age
> > corresponds more with Croizat's predictions made in the 1950's and 60's
> > (including trans-oceanic voyages) than all those later  imposing
> > anthropological 'authorities'. Of course no good prediction ever goes
> > unpunished.
> >
> > John Grehan
> > --
> > https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fhepialidsoftheworld.com.au%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc8c898b9106a4e047f5908db82eea937%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638247733781864555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=79wO1t8oG0F4tNFxh6dDGhsgJmNdE53ZospW9agbpQk%3D&reserved=0 (use the 'visit archived web site'
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> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> > about 36 years, 1987-2023.
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> >
> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> > about 36 years, 1987-2023.
> >
>
>
> --
> Dunedin, New Zealand.
>
> My books:
>
> *Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC, Boca
> Raton FL. 2017.
>
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.routledge.com%2FBiogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand%2FHeads%2Fp%2Fbook%2F9781498751872&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc8c898b9106a4e047f5908db82eea937%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638247733781864555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Wvo1wVL49Sfo2DNYuYi6RPo8c2R8MUrWIfedj27Y%2BFA%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> *Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge University
> Press, Cambridge. 2014. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cambridge.org%2F9781107041028&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc8c898b9106a4e047f5908db82eea937%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638247733781864555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=g9xfMBGMrNSwOLuGkv4PGrnDyY0%2FoO1xeI9NQHZgdpU%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> *Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California Press,
> Berkeley. 2012. https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ucpress.edu%2Fbook.php%3Fisbn%3D9780520271968&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc8c898b9106a4e047f5908db82eea937%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638247733781864555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=GKhIyKb0p8d%2FC2EwuERO30KoMUeGHeOBxuF4SgyEK2E%3D&reserved=0
>
>
> *Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University Press,
> New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbooks.google.co.nz%2Fbooks%3Fid%3DBm0_QQ3Z6GUC&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7Cc8c898b9106a4e047f5908db82eea937%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638247733781864555%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=ZdYEX2anyYjHUu5D0iXiHACqJGeXNL7NSBEtHcLKY7o%3D&reserved=0
> <
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> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
>
>
> --
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