Taxacom: demystifying gender agreement ( was Re: Removals ofoffending scientific names)

Thu Jul 6 03:40:33 CDT 2023

Actually, a specialized model trained on a few textbooks and dictionaries
and catalogues would perform better than 99% of taxonomists. This kind of
LLM does not need to know who Sher is or remember complete text  of Á la
recherche du temp perdu. I understand it would take a couple of days, just
nobody got around doing it.

Cheers,
Vlad

On Thu, Jul 6, 2023, 03:01 Neal Evenhuis via Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu>
wrote:

> Silly me -- I thought it would be useful to ask ChatGPT if AI could ever
> help with gender agreement (after all AI is our future) and here is what it
> said:
>
>
> “Achieving gender agreement in the nomenclature of scientific names,
> specifically matching the gender of a species name with the gender of a
> genus name, can be a challenging task for AI. While AI can assist in
> language processing and analysis, determining gender agreement in
> scientific names often requires expert knowledge and understanding of the
> taxonomic rules and conventions.
>
> The gender agreement in scientific names is governed by the rules of Latin
> grammar, which can be complex and varied. These rules take into account the
> grammatical gender of the genus name and its appropriate agreement with the
> specific epithet or species name. Determining the correct gender agreement
> often involves understanding the etymology, historical context, and
> taxonomic practices associated with the name.
>
> While AI can help analyze large datasets of scientific names, identify
> patterns, and propose gender agreements based on grammatical rules, it may
> encounter challenges in accurately capturing the nuanced linguistic and
> taxonomic considerations involved. AI models rely on the data they are
> trained on, and if the training data does not adequately cover the
> intricacies of gender agreement in scientific names, the model's
> suggestions may be inaccurate or incomplete.
>
> Furthermore, the process of assigning gender agreement requires expert
> consensus within the scientific community. Taxonomists and biologists, who
> possess deep knowledge in their respective fields, play a crucial role in
> determining the appropriate gender agreement for scientific names. AI can
> be a valuable tool in supporting these experts by providing suggestions and
> automating certain aspects of the process, but the final decision
> ultimately lies with the scientific community.
>
> In summary, achieving gender agreement in the nomenclature of scientific
> names, specifically matching the gender of a species name with the gender
> of a genus name, is a complex task that relies on expert knowledge,
> linguistic understanding, and taxonomic considerations. While AI can
> provide assistance, it should be seen as a tool to support the work of
> experts rather than a definitive solution in itself.”
>
> So – even AI is “punting” on the issue.
>
> -Neal
>
> Long live Cryptochetum glochidatusum
>
>
> On Stardate 6/26/23, 9:45 PM, "Taxacom" <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu>
> wrote:
>
> I have followed the discussion with some dismay since the majority of the
> arguments against gender agreement (or, sometimes, more generally against
> Latin) are too whimsical to be accepted.
> To sum up, I see three rethorical/whimsical (and quite unpresentable in my
> opinion) arguments and one pratical.
> The rethorical arguments are:
> 1) Latin gender agreement rules are complicated and there are a few
> exceptions in the rules which furtherly complicate things. My answer is: in
> taxonomy there are a lot of complicate things, some strictly necessary some
> others less necessary, but every taxonomists diligently accepts them. So,
> why not gender agreement? The intellectual effort needed for becoming
> familiar with the idea of gender agreement is minimal and the Latin rules
> about it required fin zooloigcal nomenclature are minimal. Furthermore, do
> we have evidence that people coming from cultures which had nothing to do
> with Latin (and/or with gender agreement), such as China and Japan, is
> totally unable to use Latin (and/or gender agreement)? As far as I can see
> they deal with Latin in an excellent way. And for those who do not like
> adjectives there is always the option to choose a noun or a genitive (..or,
> are also Latin genitive suffixes such as -i, -ae, another unaccetable thing
> for you?).
> 2) "My native language does not know gender agreement therefore the whole
> world must adapt to this". This is a very unpresentable argument (and very
> immodest) and, as far as I can see, the most widespread. Then I suppose
> that the day some of you decide to learn Italian, French, Spanish, German
> or any other language having gender agreement rules, then you will ask
> their governments to abolish such an outdated habit because you feel not at
> ease with it....
> 3) Latin is a dead language, outdated and old fashioned. De facto  Latin
> is however the language with which the majority of the 2 millions (?)
> existing scientific names have been crafted, being Latin or latinized. So,
> a basic knowledge of Latin (and some Ancient Greek) remains a necessary
> tool for a taxonomist in order to deal with what has been done up to now
> and to understand the past of taxonomy. The existing names are also likely
> to represent the most common and widespread living organims on this planet
> and therefore these existing names are likely the ones destined to be used
> more often. Of course it is possible to discuss anything about the future
> of zoological nomenclature, even to abandon Latin and to switch to
> vernacular names or to English, but I don't see any particular advantage in
> doing this.
> The practical argument is:
> 4) names are labels, and, above all, are treated as such by databases and
> computers, therefore any change in a name will complicate things for a
> computer or anybody managing a database. Change is, however, a trademark of
> taxonomy. Names and binomina continuously change because of some taxonomic
> facts (e.g., new combinations, splitting and lumping of taxa),
> nomenclatural rules (discovery of homonimies, gender agreement, corrections
> of spellings)  and nomenclatural-taxonomic events (i.e., taxonomic
> decisions which need to follow a nomenclatural rule, i.e., the principle of
> prioriry, as in the case of synonymizations). A guy who 40 years ago had
> learnt about the existence of a snake called Elaphe longissima will be
> somewhat confused with the current name Zamenis longissimus and leaving it
> as Zamenis longissima would not represent a big help to him for reconciling
> the two binomina. So, anybody dealing with taxonomy needs to have some
> knowledge of the rules of taxonomy and nomenclature, gender agreement is
> one of them. And, if, currently, computers are unable to deal with it,
> let's change computers and, please, do not adapt our mind to the limits of
> a machine.
> To sum up: Being not afraid of Latin is a requisite for becoming a
> taxonomist, like being not afraid of blood is a must if you want to become
> a doctor! If you have a thing against Latin, then why are you a taxonomist?
> There are other branches of natural history, such as ecology or ethology
> you could consider and where you will become a simple user of scientific
> names (and in some case you could even use only vernacular names!) without
> the need to understand them and the rules behind them.
> Best regards,
> Alberto
>
>
>     Il martedì 27 giugno 2023 alle ore 05:11:58 CEST, Frank T. Krell via
> Taxacom <taxacom at lists.ku.edu> ha scritto:
>
>  We (ICZN) are talking about how to organize straw votes on major issues,
> such as gender agreement, involving as much of the global interested
> zoological community as possible. I think that consulting the community is
> crucial with such contentions issues as gender agreement or mandatory
> registration. My term with the ICZN ends next year, but I will try to push
> this as long as I can.
> Cheers
>
> Frank
>
>
> Dr. Frank-Thorsten Krell
>
> Senior Curator of Entomology, Editor-in-Chief
> Commissioner and Councillor, International Commission on Zoological
> Nomenclature
> Department of Zoology
> Denver Museum of Nature & Science
> 2001 Colorado Blvd
> Denver, Colorado 80205-5798, U.S.A.
> Frank.krell at dmns.org
> Phone 303.370.8244
> Fax 303.331.6492
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dmns.org%2Fscience%2Fzoology%2Fstaff%2Ffrank-krell%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C93363f14824c4203b0f208db7dfcb01e%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638242296485996763%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BO%2BewJLwOqwUw70BEyfLrl2uV2BLXq7hzeshUULFwa4%3D&reserved=0
>
> Bugs: They're bigger, they're better, they're buggier than ever! It's all
> about precision flight, swarm intelligence and mind control in the world of
> "Bugs," the exhibition. Marvel at their adaptive genius and see if you can
> match their brilliance.
>
>
> Bugs: Son más grandes, mejores y más increíbles que nunca. En la
> exhibición "Bugs" todo gira en torno al vuelo de precisión, la inteligencia
> en grupo y el control mental. ¡Descubre lo genios que son!
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at lists.ku.edu> On Behalf Of George
> Beccaloni via Taxacom
> Sent: Monday, June 26, 2023 11:10 AM
> To: Douglas Yanega <dyanega at gmail.com>
> Cc: taxacom at lists.ku.edu
> Subject: Re: Taxacom: demystifying gender agreement ( was Re: Removals
> ofoffending scientific names)
>
> Hopefully the ICZN isn't a dictatorship... If not, perhaps it should
> consult taxonomists worldwide and give them a vote about continuing or
> abandoning gender agreement.
>
> George
>
>
> ****************************************************************************
> *Dr George Beccaloni FLS*
> *Director, Alfred Russel Wallace Correspondence Project*
>
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>
> ****************************************************************************
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 at 18:02, Douglas Yanega via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > On 6/26/23 2:53 AM, Geoff Read via Taxacom wrote:
> > > As a database editor I can have great difficulty in ascertaining the
> > gender of a genus, because it isn't stated, and the derivation of the
> > name is obscure and unresolvable.
> > > Sometimes the view of the gender assignment oscillates between
> > > masculine
> > and feminine with successive authors over the decades. Who is right?
> > > The other unnecessary problem is that authors don't think it
> > > necessary
> > to explain themselves when they suddenly change the gender endings
> > within a genus. It's beneath them to help out in that way.
> > > So, lacking the explanation, we try to find the evidence for ourselves.
> > This is a terrific waste of my time.
> >
> > I agree, it IS a waste of your time.
> >
> > If there was a single list to consult that told you *instantly and
> > definitively* what gender any given genus is, and another list that
> > told you whether or not an epithet is subject to changes in spelling
> > (and what those changes are), do you think that this would resolve
> > this particular issue?
> >
> > Don't give in to the Dark Side.
> >
> > Peace,
> >
> > --
> > Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology      Entomology Research Museum
> > Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314    skype: dyanega
> > phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
> >              https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ffaculty.ucr.edu%2F~heraty%2Fyanega.html&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C93363f14824c4203b0f208db7dfcb01e%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C638242296485996763%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=I%2Fp4mEnCpM0dvivEsrUQI%2B4%2FLFj8Q6ngCQjSQIVVtfM%3D&reserved=0
> >    "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
> >          is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82
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> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
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> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>
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> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
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>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity and admiring alliteration for
> about 36 years, 1987-2023.
>