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Taxacom: [iczn-list] Meier et al.'s re-analysis of the data in Sharkey et al.’s (2021) in Cladistics

Scott Thomson scott.thomson321 at gmail.com
Tue Apr 19 17:05:35 CDT 2022 

Well to go a little further...

Jose I remember your paper and read it with great interest at the time. It
is good that the Meier et al paper is now also out fully and not just a
preprint.

I have long been critical of DNA only approaches, particularly if its using
the mitochondrial DNA and CO1 is particularly problematic if its the sole
gene relied on and this seems to be the case with barcoding. At least in
vertebrates this gene and the mitochondria in general is affected by
introgression. Species boundaries are unfortunately not as clean as we
would hope. I would imagine the same may be true of many invertebrate taxa
and even plants. Hence I do favor less rapid production approaches.

Sure DNA has several advantages, one it requires less specialisation in the
species in question, it just requires skill in DNA extraction and
sequencing, the ability to punch data into an algorithm of some type. The
perfect scenario for rapid turnover budgets of Universities. However, on
its own what it produces is not useful. It produces a result, but I think
taxonomy, if we want it respected as a base science, must produce useful
results. By itself in many ways DNA and particularly barcodes, are similar
to numerical taxonomy, it takes objectivity to the level of the absurd.
Biota is not divided into nice discreet equal packets we can call species
and even objective methodologies rely on assumptions. In numerical taxonomy
and I think this applies to barcodes as well the assumption is that all
data is equal. But species are not equal.

I do accept that in megadiverse groups there is an issue of expediency
against the biodiversity crisis. I think to deal with that requires more
taxonomists, and more specialisations and to actually turn taxonomy into a
viable career path that is not done just by the lucky few to score a museum
position. Many agencies should be encouraged to fund taxonomy and employ
taxonomists.

Then there is morphology..... that should always be a requirement. But I
would make this email very long going into that part of the debate.

Cheers Scott

On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 5:22 PM Michael Heads via Taxacom <
taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:

>    The second sentence of Meir et al.: 'This heightened interest has
> highlighted one more that one of the most important tasks in science is
> unfinished: the discovery and description of earth's biodiversity'.
> Biologists always make this mistake, geologists never do. Would anyone
> write 'mars' or 'jupiter'?
>  more that one of the most important tasks in science is unfinished: the
> discovery and description of earth’s biodiversity (May, 2011).
>
> On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 5:29 AM Scott Thomson via Taxacom <
> taxacom at lists.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > thanks for the paper, it's a very interesting and timely analysis of the
> > issue.
> >
> > Cheers Scott
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 19, 2022 at 1:36 PM Evangelos Vlachos <evlacho at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> https://nam10.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fonlinelibrary.wiley.com%2Fdoi%2F10.1111%2Fcla.12489&data=05%7C01%7Ctaxacom%40lists.ku.edu%7C9e2f848219ee48caf6f608da2250c30b%7C3c176536afe643f5b96636feabbe3c1a%7C0%7C0%7C637860027516160184%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=MQlNO2KgTp%2Bq8egfJ987MmSC6C01khnjEMo9S%2BLirPY%3D&reserved=0
> > >
> > > Dear All, in both ICZN list and Taxacom, the COI barcode practice
> > > by Sharkey et al. to name hundreds of species has raised many
> > discussions,
> > > from both a nomenclatural and taxonomic point of view.
> > >
> > > So I thought to share with the members of the list the Meier et al.'s
> > > paper, published in Open Access in the latest issue of Cladistics.
> > >
> > > They add more arguments (mostly taxonomic, I think) to the discussion.
> > >
> > > Sincerely,
> > > Evan Vlachos
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Scott Thomson
> >
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>


-- 
Scott Thomson

Centro de Estudos dos Quelônios da Amazônia - CEQUA
Petrópolis, Manaus
State of Amazonas, 69055-010
Brasil

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