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[Taxacom] Describing taxa for conservation purposes - Scott Thomson's latest attempt to sabotage the ICZN Code for his own self-gratification.

Scott Thomson scott.thomson321 at gmail.com
Thu Oct 14 23:35:47 CDT 2021 

Hi John,

As for Australian courts mandating ICZN rules - that's an interesting take.
Can anyone else verify that?

They didn't.


And also, how do Australian courts come to be in a position of creating
legislation (which is what this would seem to be)?

They cannot

Cheers Scott


On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 12:06 AM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:

> I won't engage in taking sides over issues I have not investigated (and
> don't intend to in this case). As for Australian courts mandating ICZN
> rules - that's an interesting take. Can anyone else verify that? And also,
> how do Australian courts come to be in a position of creating legislation
> (which is what this would seem to be)?
>
> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 11:56 PM Raymond Hoser - The Snakeman <
> viper007 at live.com.au> wrote:
>
>> John,
>> thanks for your post.
>> FYI The courts here in Australia ruled that Australian scientists are
>> legally bound by the rules of the ICZN, so I maintain my comments.
>> But please explain your noticeable silence in terms of the ridiculous
>> false claims made against me and other victims of the scams, by Kaiser,
>> Wuster and Thomson, noting you are seeking a collegiate vibe here?
>>
>> Thank You
>>
>> Raymond Hoser
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, 15 October 2021 1:29 PM
>> *To:* Raymond Hoser - The Snakeman <viper007 at live.com.au>
>> *Cc:* Scott Thomson <scott.thomson321 at gmail.com>; taxacom <
>> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Taxacom] Describing taxa for conservation purposes -
>> Scott Thomson's latest attempt to sabotage the ICZN Code for his own
>> self-gratification.
>>
>> Since the rules of nomenclature are a convention or agreement among like
>> minded individuals there is no such thing as 'illegally' renaming taxa.
>> Anyone is free to conform to the rules entirely, in part, or not at all. It
>> is inappropriate, in my opinion, for any taxacom member to make accusations
>> of 'illegal' actions in taxonomy against other taxonomists. There is no
>> such thing, and it is not a collegial form of communication on this list -
>> in my opinion. Hope I am not alone in that.
>>
>> John Grehan
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 14, 2021 at 10:10 PM Raymond Hoser - The Snakeman <
>> viper007 at live.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Dear all,
>> having read this latest Scott Thomson rant, I note that it is simply a
>> justification of sorts for his ongoing taxonomic vandalism which he has
>> chosen not to mention to his readers.
>> It rehashes the long discredited claims of his Kaiser et al (2013)
>> manifesto calling for destruction of the ICZN Code and fails to mention
>> that he has illegally renamed several species and genera of turtle,
>> including Wollumbinia, for which he has illegally coined the name Myuchelys
>> as a junior synonym. ... a bastard name that he desperately tries to get
>> others to name.
>> So now his latest plot is to set himself up as head honcho to make
>> "species lists" which everyone else will use and in contempt of the rules
>> of the ICZN.
>> This is extremely dangerous as no budding scientist will want to enter
>> the science of taxonomy, as they risk their life's work being stolen by
>> Thomson and the Wuster gang, who will summarily rename and all sundry in
>> contempt of the rules of the Code and then improperly peddle their names to
>> gullible others.
>> The end result will be lots of undescribed biodiversity becoming extinct
>> even before it is named!
>> Fortunately there is already a paper that deals with the Thomson rant,
>> and I post a link to it below.
>> All the best
>> Raymond Hoser
>>
>> Hoser, R. T. 2013. The science of herpetology is built on evidence,
>> ethics,
>> quality publications and strict compliance with the rules of
>> nomenclature.
>> *Australasian Journal of Herpetology *18:2-79.
>>
>> http://www.smuggled.com/AJH-I18-Split.htm
>> Smuggled.com <http://www.smuggled.com/AJH-I18-Split.htm>
>> Australasian Journal of Herpetology. Issue 18, published 29 April 2013.
>> To download the individual paper or the journal in full, click on the
>> relevant linked text below:
>> www.smuggled.com
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of Scott
>> Thomson via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> *Sent:* Friday, 15 October 2021 3:49 AM
>> *To:* John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Taxacom] Describing taxa for conservation purposes
>>
>> Followup as requested the paper on Consequences came out today.
>>
>>
>> https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355208487_Towards_a_global_list_of_accepted_species_II_Consequences_of_inadequate_taxonomic_list_governance
>>
>> Is on my Research Gate.
>>
>> Cheers Scott
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 2:13 PM John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Scott - please make sure to announce your article on Taxacom when it is
>> > published (and a link if it is open access).
>> >
>> > On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 11:20 AM Scott Thomson via Taxacom <
>> > taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Daniel,
>> >>
>> >> sorry I forgot to answer your specific question.
>> >>
>> >> In the paper I have in press we look at several case studies. For
>> >> different
>> >> points. On this issue the two we use are the tupunali orangutan and
>> >> giraffe
>> >> though from different perspectives.
>> >>
>> >> One we did not use is in the description of Chelodina mccordi
>> rotiensis it
>> >> was stated that it was made a subspecies so it would inherit the CITES
>> >> status of Chelodina mccordi without the need for assessment. Work since
>> >> this time would indicate it is a species.
>> >>
>> >> There are numerous examples of this, some are less obvious than others.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers Scott
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Sep 4, 2021 at 12:47 AM Daniel Gustafsson via Taxacom <
>> >> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Hi all,
>> >> >
>> >> > I recently came across this publication:
>> >> > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/24750263.2020.1857852
>> >> >
>> >> > In it, the authors "describe" a new subgenus for a species of North
>> >> > American squirrel (Tamiasciurus mearnsi). The driving force behind
>> this
>> >> > seems to be that "Tamiasciurus" means "hoarder squirrel", and T.
>> mearnsi
>> >> > doesn't hoard, so the genus name in inappropriate. They instead
>> suggest
>> >> > "pseudotamias" (sic) as a subgenus (narrowly avoiding the already
>> >> > proposed Pseudotamia Stephens, 1829), despite also making clear that
>> >> > this species is "a descendant of T. douglasii, phylogenetically as
>> well
>> >> > as biogeographically".
>> >> >
>> >> > Another driving force behind this new subgenus appear to be for pure
>> >> > conservation reasons. The authors spend a lot of time complaining
>> about
>> >> > how little funds are allocated to squirrel conservation in North
>> America
>> >> > (only 0.00001% of GDP! and that is for all small mammals, not just
>> >> > squirrels!), and the hunting policies of North American squirrels.
>> They
>> >> > conclude:
>> >> > "Also, a wider structural change is needed in the approach of how
>> >> > taxonomy, research and conservation management are done for a more
>> >> > sustainable human-nature interaction."
>> >> >
>> >> > This comes at the heels of this confused gem:
>> >> > "Taxonomy as a field of study is rather complex and classifications
>> >> > remain widely disagreed upon and unclear. Often chaotically
>> dominated by
>> >> > just a few players, institutions, and mindsets, this system leaves
>> out
>> >> > the wider public. It is not sustainable, hardly meaningful, and
>> >> > certainly not scientific or democratic. This can be resolved by a
>> more
>> >> > holistic classification system, including all
>> >> > species-/genera-interfering characteristics rather than only single
>> ones
>> >> > (morphological appearance, genetical relations etc.). Additionally,
>> >> > increased budget assignments for small mammals, especially squirrels,
>> >> > can have a major impact on their conservation success. Higher law
>> >> > enforcement for hunting regulations can additionally strongly
>> contribute
>> >> > to science-based management for these squirrels."
>> >> > and a few tables where they show how "taxonomy and classification
>> >> > disputes exist and affect conservation efficiency", some of which
>> >> > examples seem to have no connection to taxonomy, and many of which do
>> >> > not reference any taxonomic or phylogenetic research more recent than
>> >> > the 1990s.
>> >> >
>> >> > The part about how we should use a "holistic classification system,
>> >> > including all species-/genera-interfering characteristics" is
>> >> > particularly weird, as the only "characteristics" they use to
>> establish
>> >> > this new subgenus are morphometrics (average body length and average
>> >> > body mass) and the differences in hoarding behaviour, while
>> disregarding
>> >> > all genetic and other moprhological data.
>> >> >
>> >> > This is a long and rambling paper, but the essence (as far as I can
>> >> > tell) is that the authors think that more money should be spent on
>> >> > conserving a squirrel (more than 0.00001% of GDP), and the best way
>> to
>> >> > do so is to move it to a new subgenus. I assume this subgenus is also
>> >> > available from this publication, as they do include measurements that
>> >> > purportedly separate the type species from the other two species in
>> the
>> >> > genus (which according to the sources they cite would the form
>> >> > paraphyletic nominate subgenus).
>> >> >
>> >> > ---
>> >> >
>> >> > The same journal also published this:
>> >> > https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/11250003.2014.895060
>> >> >
>> >> > Abstract (in part):
>> >> > "While we are fully aware of the high degree of arbitrariness of
>> >> > subspecific designations, it is also a fact that taxonomic
>> recognition
>> >> > supports conservation, because subspecies are a legal category
>> whereas
>> >> > other designations (such as evolutionarily significant units, ESUs)
>> are
>> >> > not. We therefore argue that the Mesola red deer should be assigned
>> to a
>> >> > subspecies of their own, and give an official description of Cervus
>> >> > elaphus italicus nova ssp., including the designation of a holo- and
>> a
>> >> > paratype specimen."
>> >> >
>> >> > They seem to make a much better argument than the first paper, but
>> still
>> >> > base their decision to describe a new taxon partially on how this
>> will
>> >> > make it easier to get funding for conservation work.
>> >> >
>> >> > ---
>> >> >
>> >> > I am wondering, does anyone know more examples like this? Where
>> >> > conservation issues are driving or influencing taxonomic decisions?
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Dr. Daniel R. Gustafsson, Research Assistant Professor
>> >> > Institute of Zoology Guangdong Academy of Sciences, Guangzhou, China.
>> >> >
>> >> > Ask me about chewing lice!
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Taxacom Mailing List
>> >> >
>> >> > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
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>> >> > You can reach the person managing the list at:
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>> >> > The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> >> > http://taxacom.markmail.org
>> >> >
>> >> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years,
>> >> 1987-2021.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Scott Thomson
>> >>
>> >> Centro de Estudos dos Quelônios da Amazônia - CEQUA
>> >> Petrópolis, Manaus
>> >> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>> >> Brasil
>> >>
>> >> http://www.carettochelys.com
>> >> ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1279-2722
>> >> Lattes: *http://lattes.cnpq.br/0323517916624728*
>> >> <
>> >>
>> https://wwws.cnpq.br/cvlattesweb/PKG_MENU.menu?f_cod=1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD#
>> >> >
>> >> Skype: Faendalimas
>> >> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>> >> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Taxacom Mailing List
>> >>
>> >> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> >> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> >> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>> >> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> >> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> >> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> >> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>> >>
>> >> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years,
>> 1987-2021.
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Scott Thomson
>>
>> Centro de Estudos dos Quelônios da Amazônia - CEQUA
>> Petrópolis, Manaus
>> State of Amazonas, 69055-010
>> Brasil
>>
>> http://www.carettochelys.com
>> ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-1279-2722
>> Lattes: *http://lattes.cnpq.br/0323517916624728*
>> <
>> https://wwws.cnpq.br/cvlattesweb/PKG_MENU.menu?f_cod=1E409F4BF37BFC4AD13FD58CDB7AA5FD#
>> >
>> Skype: Faendalimas
>> Mobile Phone Brasil: +55 11 98178 7270
>> Whatsapp: +55 11 98178 7270
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>>
>> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> For list information; to subscribe or unsubscribe, visit:
>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> The Taxacom email archive back to 1992 can be searched at:
>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>
>> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.
>>
>>

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