[Taxacom] Taxacom Digest, Vol 187, Issue 18

Mon Nov 29 00:33:54 CST 2021

Now, now Jason. It's one thing to object to the way I describe a particular
approach, but another to create an "all vicariance team".  See Heads'
response on that. And it is incorrect to say that I am complaining "that
they are using timing to discern between tectonics and active dispersal".
Not at all. What I am 'complaining' about is the continued use of
the fiction that fossil calibrated estimates somehow generate actual ages
when they don't. And they carry this on as if this has never been pointed
out. That is why it is a fiction, and why their approach is garbage - in my
opinion. A fossil can empirically generate only an actual date for the
oldest known record. One may have personal views about limiting how much
older a taxon may be, but that estimate cannot come from the fossil. A
minimum is a minimum, is a minimum.

I would also note that many have dismissed panbiogeography as 'garbage' one
way or another, and I have no problem with that as everyone is entitled to
their personal view, but how they reach that opinion is up for challenge,
at least in science, in theory anyway. Some try to get around that little
impediment by trying to have panbiogeography suppressed so they can
presumably avoid having to defend their views from critique.

Cheers,

John Grehan

On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 1:16 AM Michael Heads via Taxacom <
taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:

> I don't know any 'all-vicariance biogeographer', let alone a team. Can you
> name any? If evolution really was 'all vicariance', every species would
> have its own range, shared with no other.
>
> On Mon, Nov 29, 2021 at 6:48 PM Jason Mate via Taxacom <
> taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>
> > "Here's another predictable example of garbage biogeography. Garbage,
> > because ...
> > ...maintaining the fiction ...
> > It's all a total fabrication, now verging on fraud ..."
> >
> > Even if people were marginally sympathetic to panbiogeography, the over
> the
> > top language would harden their stance. What you are complaining about,
> > again, is that they are using
> > timing to discern between tectonics and active dispersal. We already know
> > the "all-vicariance-team" has no room for the latter so... what's new?
> >
> > Jason
> >
> > On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 at 04:00, <taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Daily News from the Taxacom Mailing List
> > >
> > > When responding to a message, please do not copy the entire digest into
> > > your reply.
> > > ____________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > > Today's Topics:
> > >
> > >    1. Garbage dispersal of iguanas to Madagascar (John Grehan)
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 1
> > > Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 13:48:30 -0500
> > > From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
> > > To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> > > Subject: [Taxacom] Garbage dispersal of iguanas to Madagascar
> > > Message-ID:
> > >         <
> > > CADN0ud23re-vwiyb7FJAOPbFFT-evCRoox18jtQgL61MyFU-ag at mail.gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> > >
> > > Here's another predictable example of garbage biogeography. Garbage,
> > > because it fails to address the reality that fossil calibrated ages are
> > > minimums only. By maintaining the fiction that fossil calibrated ages
> are
> > > something else, this paper (citation below) misrepresents fossil
> > calibrated
> > > ages as evidence for iguanas in Madagascar to have arrived after
> > separation
> > > from Africa, via rafting on vegetation (I would call this floating on
> > > metaphysical garbage) from South America (where its sister group is
> > > present). It's all a total fabrication, now verging on fraud (I use
> that
> > > term because the failure to address the fossil age minimum criterion
> has
> > to
> > > be deliberate since the critique is widely published and known). Anyone
> > who
> > > wants a copy but does not have access, and is interested to see it to
> > > evaluate my assessment further, is welcome to get a copy from me.
> Cheers,
> > > John Grehan
> > >
> > > Welt, S.R. & Raxworthy, J.C. 2021. Dispersal, not vicariance, explains
> > the
> > > biogeographic origin of iguanas on Madagascar, Molecular Phylogenetics
> > and
> > > Evolution.  https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ympev.2021.107345
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Subject: Digest Footer
> > >
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> > > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years,
> 1987-2021.
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > End of Taxacom Digest, Vol 187, Issue 18
> > > ****************************************
> > >
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> > Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.
> >
>
>
> --
> Dunedin, New Zealand.
>
> My books:
>
> *Biogeography and evolution in New Zealand. *Taylor and Francis/CRC, Boca
> Raton FL. 2017.
>
> https://www.routledge.com/Biogeography-and-Evolution-in-New-Zealand/Heads/p/book/9781498751872
>
>
> *Biogeography of Australasia:  A molecular analysis*. Cambridge University
> Press, Cambridge. 2014. www.cambridge.org/9781107041028
>
>
> *Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of California Press,
> Berkeley. 2012. www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520271968
>
>
> *Panbiogeography: Tracking the history of life*. Oxford University Press,
> New York. 1999. (With R. Craw and J. Grehan).
> http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=Bm0_QQ3Z6GUC
> <
> http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=Bm0_QQ3Z6GUC&dq=panbiogeography&source=gbs_navlinks_s
> >
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>
> Nurturing nuance while assailing ambiguity for about 34 years, 1987-2021.
>