[Taxacom] type species of Antitrisuloides Holloway, 1985 ?

[Francisco Welter-Schultes]

Stephen,
Thank you for this research. I agree that the publication must be 
considered as a whole.

The cited combination Antitrisuloides catocalina (Moore) would allow to 
regard the requirement of Art. 67.2.1 "cited by an available name" as 
met. Citation of the original genus is not a requirement. I overlooked 
that. Sorry for the confusion.

If the name was doubtfully included (Art. 67.2.5), it cannot be 
considered an originally included species. Ambiguous should be contained 
in the term "doubtful".
Indeed this should depend on the context. If it is clear from the 
taxonomic context (description etc.) which one of the two catocalinas 
was meant, then the type fixation should stand, original designation.

Best wishes
Francisco

Am 13.11.2021 um 22:38 schrieb Stephen Thorpe:
>   PS2: So Moths of Borneo has got it all wrong! https://www.mothsofborneo.com/part-14/pantheinae/pantheinae_2_1.php
>      On Sunday, 14 November 2021, 10:31:31 am NZDT, Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
>   
>    PS: The main problem here is that we have
> Trisuloides catocalina (Moore, 1882) (Original combination: Tambana catocalina Moore, 1882) andTrisuloides catocalina Moore, 1883
> 
> One of these is now Antitrisuloides catocalina (Moore), whereas the other seems to be considered to be a true Trisuloides
> According to Behounek, Han & Kononenko (2011: abstract), [quote]The name Trisuloides catocalina Moore, 1883 stat. rev. is recognized as valid, not a synonym of Trisuloides sericea Butler, 1881 and not a homonym of Tambana catocalina Moore, 1882 (currently placed in Antitrisuloides Holloway, 1985)[unquote]
> The problem is trying to confirm that Holloway (1985) was talking about Tambana catocalina Moore, 1882, rather than about Trisuloides catocalina Moore, 1883! If I do a search on Holloway's article on Google book snippets for Tambana, I get no relevant result. However, Trisuloides catocalina Moore, 1883 seems to have been considered to be an invalid synonym at the time of Holloway (1985), not reinstated as valid until Behounek, Han & Kononenko (2011, above), leaving Tambana catocalina Moore, 1882 as the only option for type species of Antitrisuloides, which seems to be in line with all the relevant literature.
> Both genera presumably belong to subfamily Pantheinae?
> Stephen
>      On Sunday, 14 November 2021, 09:59:25 am NZDT, Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>   
>    Francisco,A couple of comments. I don't have access to the full Holloway (1985) article, only what can be seen using snippets on Google Books. However: (1) Articles must be interpreted as a whole, with a little bit of room for interpretation, based on plausible assumptions. So, even though the type designation itself, taken out of context, is ambiguous, that ambiguity may be able to be resolved by reading the whole article, in which is would presumably become clear which catocalina Moore was intended as the type species;(2) I think that Holloway (1985) did include just the type species in the new genus, so we have potential type species fixation also by monotypy, though it is possible that, even though he may have redescribed the species in detail, he fails to cite the name of the species in such a way as to resolve the ambiguity between the two catocalina Moore (i.e. by not citing the original combination or date). This could get messy for historical literature, as it could potentially result in the species redescription conferring availability on the name used as a new name attributable to the redescriber, e.g. Antitrisuloides catocalina Holloway, 1985!Cheers, Stephen
>      On Sunday, 14 November 2021, 06:38:03 am NZDT, Francisco Welter-Schultes via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>   
>   Stephen you pointed to the same problem I also would like to mention:
> 
> "catocalina Moore" alone is probably not a valid type designation. Art.
> 67.2.1 demands a name having been cited by "an available name of a
> species or subspecies", so citing a name without genus is not a "name
> cited". A name of a species is a binomen, it requires a generic name.
> 
> Since there are two "catocalina Moore", the citation was ambiguous, and
> Art. 68.2 fails, because Art. 67.5.3 applies. In any case, we have no
> original type designation, and hence, no type fixed by original
> designation. Also, Art. 67.2.5 needs to be considered. I cannot read the
> publication very well, Stephen you might have a better access.
> If Antitrisuloides can have a validly fixed type in the original source,
> then by monotypy. I could not check how many species were originally
> included. Should probably be checked.
> 
> Antitrisuloides could be a nomen nudum in that 1985 source.
> 
> Best wishes
> Francisco
> 
> 
> 
> Am 13.11.2021 um 09:03 schrieb Stephen Thorpe via Taxacom:
>>    I think the confusion possibly arises from Holloway (1985) designation of type species for new genus Antitrisuloides. It is cited as catocalina Moore, with no mention of genus or date, see: https://books.google.co.nz/books?redir_esc=y&id=MvtNAAAAYAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=catocalinaHaving said that, it is implied to be Trisuloides catocalina Moore, on p. 162, with no search results in the publication for Tambana catocalina. This does suggest a problem and a potential misidentification of type species, made worse by the apparent homonymy with Tambana catocalina Moore, 1882 being incorrectly referred to in some literature as Trisuloides catocalina (Moore, 1882), not to be confused with Trisuloides catocalina Moore, 1883. A bit of a mess!Stephen
>>        On Saturday, 13 November 2021, 05:52:04 pm NZDT, Nick Grishin via Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> wrote:
>>    
>>    Markku,
>>
>> First, huge thanks for maintaining your wonderful website! There is
>> nothing else like it, it is really convenient, and speeds up research
>> linking names to publications. Much grateful.
>>
>>> https: //www.mothsofborneo.com/part-14/pantheinae/pantheinae_2_1.php
>>
>> Pictures show *Tambana catocalina* Moore, 1882.
>>
>> The text references *Trisuloides catocalina* Moore, 1883,
>> but gives *Trisuloides polyphaenaria* Warren, 1912 as its synonym,
>> which is a synonym of *Tambana catocalina* Moore, 1882 instead.
>>
>> Therefore, "1883, Proc. zool. Soc. Lond. 1883: 17" is probably a *lapsus
>> calami*.
>>
>> If this is so, then the type species of *Antitrisuloides* is
>> *Tambana catocalina* Moore, 1882 and
>> NOT *Trisuloides catocalina* Moore, 1883
>>
>> An alternative interpretation could be "misidentified type species",
>> check out Art. 70.3.
>> https://code.iczn.org/types-in-the-genus-group/article-70-identification-of-the-type-species/
>>
>> I have not studied the 2011 paper, maybe they discussed this, n
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