[Taxacom] ninjabaerus
Richard Pyle
deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
Sat Jan 23 17:26:57 CST 2021
2021
Thanks, Thomas! Good points (as usual)! I'm not sure that the "abstract" (clearly authored by someone other than Scott & Rines) has any bearing on the hypothetical nature of taxon for which the new name is proposed. But I missed the line in the article itself about "their existence seems closer to being established", and agree that suggests that the authors themselves were not certain about the non-hypothetical existence of the taxon. Thus, I could be persuaded to agree that Art. 1.3.1 applies to N. rhombopteryx. Of course, there is also the subsequent assertion that the "organisms" represented the images of the purported specimen(s) are actually non-biological, and therefore the name could be regarded as unavailable under Art 1.1 (among others).
And, of course, I fully agree that the Code cannot be perfect, and that "fuzzy" bits are inevitable. My main point was that Art. 1.3.1 should be interpreted in the context of the name *as proposed* in the original publication, not on subsequent community consensus regarding the "reality" of the organism as named.
Aloha,
Rich
Richard L. Pyle, PhD
Senior Curator of Ichthyology | Director of XCoRE
Bernice Pauahi Bishop Museum
1525 Bernice Street, Honolulu, HI 96817-2704
Office: (808) 848-4115; Fax: (808) 847-8252
eMail: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
BishopMuseum.org
Our Mission: Bishop Museum inspires our community and visitors through the exploration and celebration of the extraordinary history, culture, and environment of Hawaiʻi and the Pacific.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> On Behalf Of
> Thomas Pape via Taxacom
> Sent: Saturday, January 23, 2021 5:39 AM
> To: 'Taxacom' <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] ninjabaerus
>
> I am happy to align with Rich.
>
> In the original description of Nessiteras rhombopteryx, Nature provided a
> short abstract, which shows that the journal [topic editor?] saw the paper as
> the authors' intent of naming "a species whose existence is still a matter of
> controversy".
>
> The only evidence in the paper itself is the statement that:
> "their existence [i.e., the animals] seems closer to being established".
>
> The zoo-Code applies only to taxa containing at least one "animal then known
> to exist in nature, past or present", and the authors of Nessiteras
> rhombopteryx admittedly appear to have had no doubts about the reality of
> "the large animal species living in Loch Ness". And if just one of the syntypes
> represented by the many sightings and photographs is of a fish or a seal
> (https://www.icrwhale.org/pdf/SC039151-157.pdf), then this requirement
> would probably be fulfilled.
>
> No matter how precise the zoo-Code is worded, we cannot avoid the shades
> of probability nor can we avoid the penumbra of not knowing exactly what is
> or was on any author's mind.
>
> /Thomas
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
> Sent: 23. januar 2021 09:31
> To: 'Taxacom' <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Cc: Thomas Pape <tpape at snm.ku.dk>
> Subject: RE: [Taxacom] ninjabaerus
>
> I'm going to do something I very (very) rarely do: disagree with Thomas:
>
> > This is why scientific names proposed for 'Nessie', 'Bigfoot', and
> > other fictional creatures are not available.
>
> As far as I can discern, the scientific names for both "Nessie" (Nessiteras
> rhombopteryx Scott & Rines 1975) and "Bigfoot" (Homo sapiens cognatus
> Ketchum 2013) are available under the Code. I am well aware of arguments
> (e.g., Notton et al. 2011) that the former is unavailable under Art. 1.3.1; but I
> think a careful reading of both Art. 1.3 and the original description
> (https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> nature.com%2Farticles%2F258466a0.pdf&data%7C01%7Ctpape%40s
> nm.ku.dk%7C2d3c4ccb51e34bb86be408d8bf794152%7Ca3927f91cda14696af
> 898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0%7C637469875272089367%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb
> GZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6
> Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=YF5WYCM4WUNnxFIDKVHxjYoob2mlU12euI3
> BYE9mgHo%3D&reserved=0) make it clear that Art. 1.3.1 does not apply.
> Note that Art. 1.3.1, in full (including the text of Art. 1.3), reads: "[Excluded
> from the provisions of the Code are names *proposed*] for hypothetical
> concepts;" I emphasized the verb "proposed" because it references the
> context in which a name is established. There is no indication that Scott and
> Rines *proposed* a name for a hypothetical concept -- there is every
> indication within the original publication that they proposed the name for
> what they asserted to be a very real organism (complete with photos
> purported to depict the type specimen). It is often pointed out that the name
> itself is an anagram for "Monster hoax by Sir Peter S". But this no more
> represents evidence that the authors intentionally proposed an name for a
> hypothetical concept than the fact that the name is also an anagram for "Yes,
> both pix are monsters – R" represents evidence that they believed it to be a
> genuine organism. Nothing in the original description suggests that it was
> proposed for a hypothetical concept.
>
> It is likewise clear from the original description of H. s. cognatus that the
> authors very-much considered the taxon to be real (not hypothetical):
> https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fheavy.
> com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2Fnovel-north-american-
> hominins-final-pdf-
> download.pdf&data%7C01%7Ctpape%40snm.ku.dk%7C2d3c4ccb51e
> 34bb86be408d8bf794152%7Ca3927f91cda14696af898c9f1ceffa91%7C0%7C0
> %7C637469875272089367%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA
> wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&s
> data=M3jY%2BQLgSPmzGAlQaAskYSo8J0r5pzelMS6x76lFqZg%3D&reserv
> ed=0
>
> The point is, I think the verb "proposed" in the context of Art. 1.3 (and, by
> extension, Art. 1.3.1) clearly implies that the description itself must assert that
> the name is intended for a taxon that is not based on actual specimens (or,
> what are believed to be actual specimens), but rather a hypothetical concept
> (e.g. the hypothetical common ancestor of two extant taxa, absent any fossil
> evidence for such). If it were interpreted otherwise, then *any* name for
> which an extant type is not available could be argued to be "hypothetical"
> after the publication of the description, and declared unavailable (anagrams
> or not).
>
> I haven't read the original description for Bicingulatus ninjabearus, but I
> gather it is evident from the paper itself that the taxon is hypothetical (e.g.,
> "Therefore, this paper seeks to test the limits on the application of
> phototypes." -- evidently a misguided attempt to malign the need for the
> Code to accommodate non-extant type specimens). Thus, in this case, I think
> a strong case could be made that Art. 1.3.1 does apply to this name, if it was
> indeed proposed by the authors to apply to a hypothetical concept.
>
> As for this:
> > the circumscription of a species can be seen as a scientific
> > hypothesis
>
> I fully agree with Thomas that it *can* be seen this way. And in very rare
> cases it may actually be framed this way. But in the vast, vast majority of
> cases, new species are proposed as *defined* entities, not *hypothesized*
> entities. Hypotheses are falsifiable; definitions are not.
>
> [Drops mic, sneaks out back door...]
>
> Aloha,
> Rich
>
> Richard L. Pyle, PhD
> Senior Curator of Ichthyology | Director of XCoRE Bernice Pauahi Bishop
> Museum
> 1525 Bernice Street, Honolulu, HI 96817-2704
> Office: (808) 848-4115; Fax: (808) 847-8252
> eMail: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
> BishopMuseum.org
> Our Mission: Bishop Museum inspires our community and visitors through the
> exploration and celebration of the extraordinary history, culture, and
> environment of Hawaiʻi and the Pacific.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> On Behalf Of
> Thomas
> > Pape via Taxacom
> > Sent: Friday, January 22, 2021 2:34 PM
> > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > Subject: Re: [Taxacom] ninjabaerus
> >
> > Igor:
> > You are correct that science can be seen as a hypothetico-deductive
> > method and the circumscription of a species can be seen as a scientific
> hypothesis.
> > However, the zoo-Code has this definition in the Glossary:
> >
> > ----------------------------------
> > concept, hypothetical, n.
> > A taxonomic concept that when published contained no animal then known
> > to exist in nature, past or present, but only in the mind of the
> > author whether a prediction or not.
> > ----------------------------------
> >
> > This is why scientific names proposed for 'Nessie', 'Bigfoot', and
> > other fictional creatures are not available.
> >
> > /Thomas
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Taxacom <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> On Behalf Of
> igor
> > pavlinov via Taxacom
> > Sent: 22. januar 2021 21:02
> > To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> > Subject: [Taxacom] ninjabaerus
> >
> >
> > Thanks to all who responded so swiftly. I haven’t known anything about
> > ninjabaerus.
> >
> > However, the paper in question is of a certain importance to me
> > because it provides a rare example of an explicit use of the term
> > «phototype» (not in the sense of lichenologists). So I’ll probably
> > have to cite it, all the same, as well as an another example of «joke
> > nomenclature» (along with famous Rhinogradentia).
> >
> > As to the reference to the Art. 1.3.1, the latter is curious by
> > itself. The matter is that any schientific knowledge is hypothetical,
> > so description of a new taxon is always a kind of taxonomic hypothesis
> > to be tested by new data. So, from a «philosopical» (Popperian)
> > perspective, the main thesis of this Article is incosistent and needs
> reformulation in more correct terms.
> >
> > My bests,
> >
> > Igor
> > - - -
> > Igor Ya. Pavlinov, DrS
> > Zoological Museum of Lomonosov Moscow State University ul. Bol'shaya
> > Nikitskaya 6
> > 125009 Moscow
> > Russia
> >
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