[Taxacom] Who should get the kudos?

Thu Jan 3 12:38:01 CST 2019

My view: Ali collected S. wallacii. He discovered the first specimen known to science, but he did not discovered it as a new species. 
Socorro
      De: blaberus1 <g.beccaloni at gmail.com>
 Para: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> 
CC: Taxacom <Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Enviado: Jueves, 3 de enero, 2019 12:14:15
 Asunto: Re: [Taxacom] Who should get the kudos?

It is becoming evident that my first message wasn't very clear! I know that
taxonomists can name new species after anyone they like and it's nice to
name them after people who might benefit in some way/be eternally grateful
etc.

So my more specific question is:

"Does anyone consider a collector to be the discoverer of a species if the
collector did not realise it was new to science?"

So would it be correct to state in print "Ali discovered S. wallacii"?

Thanks!

George

On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 18:07, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would agree in general principle to the 'greater good' - whatever seems
> most appropriate to the describer/s at the time. There is no rule book. I
> have one case of naming a species after a collector who was not the
> original collector of the specimen, but who received it from another
> collector, but brought it to my attention. I noticed that some of the names
> in the article were compound names. One of my colleagues has indicated to
> me a disinclination for such as they are often long and multisyllabic,
> increasing potential for misspellings and challenging pronunciation. But I
> have done so in a couple of cases where it was a condition of the collector
> to access and describe the specimens.
> John Grehan
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:58 PM Shorthouse, David <
> davidpshorthouse at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ...though to be sure, the children may not have been (and probably
>> weren't) "collectors". The point here is that there is no formal
>> credit system for collecting specimens. So, we might as well use the
>> opportunity for a greater good whenever possible.
>>
>> David
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:54 PM Shorthouse, David
>> <davidpshorthouse at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > George -
>> >
>> > There is no better example than bestowing credit to collectors than
>> > this one: https://doi.org/10.3897/JHR.50.8220. Kudos to the team of
>> > taxonomists that honoured all the children involved. "The new species
>> > described...received patronyms based on the winners of a school child
>> > nature awareness competition conducted by the Programa de Educación
>> > Biológica de ACG in the last half of 2015".
>> >
>> > David
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:40 PM blaberus1 <g.beccaloni at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Perhaps I could ask: does anyone consider a collector to be the
>> discoverer
>> > > of a species if the collector did not realise it was new to science?
>> The
>> > > people I mentioned believe that it was Ali not Wallace who discovered
>> > > Semioptera wallacii.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks!
>> > >
>> > > George
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 16:29, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > George,
>> > > >
>> > > > In my experience for the group of my study species have sometimes
>> been
>> > > > named for the collector, sometimes not. Seems to be a discretionary
>> choice.
>> > > > There seems to be no necessity for the Semioptera to have been
>> named after
>> > > > the collection. For the new species for which I have been involved
>> with
>> > > > none of the collectors who brought material to the attention of
>> myself or
>> > > > colleagues 'knew' in advance that they had a new species. I have
>> found new
>> > > > species in other groups and it would be absurd to expect that the
>> species
>> > > > should necessarily be named after me just because I found the
>> specimens. I
>> > > > think your critics are unfamiliar with normal taxonomic practice.
>> I'll be
>> > > > interested to what others on the list with broader experience have
>> to say.
>> > > >
>> > > > John Grehan
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:18 AM blaberus1 <g.beccaloni at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > >> I have been debating with historians of science and others for a
>> while now
>> > > >> about who discovered Semioptera wallacii (Standardwing Bird of
>> Paradise):
>> > > >> –
>> > > >> was it Alfred Russel Wallace or his assistant Ali? They are
>> arguing it was
>> > > >> Ali as he shot the first specimen – and they believe it is a great
>> > > >> injustice it was named after Wallace (in fact I have been called
>> “racist”
>> > > >> for arguing against this point of view!).
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Wallace wrote in his book *The Malay Archipelago* “Just as I got
>> home I
>> > > >> overtook Ali returning from shooting with some birds hanging from
>> his
>> > > >> belt.
>> > > >> He seemed much pleased, and said, "Look here, sir, what a curious
>> bird,"
>> > > >> holding out what at first completely puzzled me. I saw a bird with
>> a mass
>> > > >> of splendid green feathers on its breast, elongated into two
>> glittering
>> > > >> tufts; but, what I could not understand was a pair of long white
>> feathers,
>> > > >> which stuck straight out from each shoulder. Ali assured me that
>> the bird
>> > > >> stuck them out this way itself, when fluttering its wings, and
>> that they
>> > > >> had remained so without his touching them. I now saw that I had
>> got a
>> > > >> great
>> > > >> prize, no less than a completely new form of the Bird of Paradise,
>> > > >> differing most remarkably from every other known bird.”
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> As a taxonomist my argument is that while Ali collected the first
>> specimen
>> > > >> he did not know it was a species new to Western taxonomy. We are
>> talking
>> > > >> about species new to SCIENCE, not simply new to Ali. Unlike
>> Wallace, Ali
>> > > >> was illiterate and was not a biologist/taxonomist. Wallace,
>> however,
>> > > >> thanks
>> > > >> to his in-depth knowledge of the birds of the region, immediately
>> > > >> recognised that it was a new species. He excitedly wrote to his
>> agent
>> > > >> Stevens:
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> "...I believe I have already the finest & most wonderful bird in
>> the
>> > > >> island
>> > > >> [Bacan, Indonesia]. I had a good mind to keep it a secret but I
>> cannot
>> > > >> resist telling you, I have got here a new Bird of Paradise!! of a
>> new
>> > > >> genus!!! quite unlike anything yet known, very curious & very
>> handsome!!!
>> > > >> When I can get a couple of pairs I will send them overland to see
>> what a
>> > > >> new Bird of Paradise will really fetch. I expect £25 each! Had I
>> seen the
>> > > >> bird in Ternate I would never have believed it came from here, so
>> far out
>> > > >> of the hitherto supposed region of the Paradiseidae. I consider it
>> the
>> > > >> greatest discovery I have yet made..." (Wallace, 1858)
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> So Wallace clearly thought HE had discovered it.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> The species was named in Wallace’s honour by Gray in 1859 -
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> http://wallace-online.org/content/frameset?pageseq=1&itemID=WSPEC017&viewtype=text
>> > > >> based on a sketch which Wallace had sent.
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> So my argument is that simply collecting a new species does not
>> mean you
>> > > >> discovered it – even if it is new to you personally. The
>> discoverer is the
>> > > >> person who realises it is a species not yet named by taxonomists.
>> What do
>> > > >> you think?
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Incidentally, I note that none of 10 randomly selected species of
>> > > >> cockroaches described in the last 10 years were named after the
>> collectors
>> > > >> of the holotypes of these species. Their names were, however,
>> mentioned in
>> > > >> the species descriptions, so they were credited for their efforts.
>> > > >> Perhaps,
>> > > >> however, some taxonomists do regularly name species after their
>> > > >> collectors?
>> > > >> Does anyone know whether this practice is commonly followed by
>> taxonomists
>> > > >> of particular groups?
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Thanks!
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >> George Beccaloni
>> > > >> _______________________________________________
>> > > >> Taxacom Mailing List
>> > > >> Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to:
>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > > >>
>> > > >> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>> > > >> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
>> > > >> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>> > > >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web, visit:
>> > > >> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>> > > >> You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> > > >> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 31 Some Years,
>> 1987-2018.
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Taxacom Mailing List
>> > > Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > >
>> > > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>> > > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web, visit:
>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>> > > You can reach the person managing the list at:
>> taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> > >
>> > > Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 31 Some Years,
>> 1987-2018.
>>
>
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu

http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web, visit: http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
You can reach the person managing the list at: taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu

Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 31 Some Years, 1987-2018.