[Taxacom] Who should get the kudos?

Thu Jan 3 12:17:21 CST 2019

Frankly, the word "discovered" is pretty bogus for something this 
large.  Surely there were local people who knew all about this bird, so 
Ali did not discover it.

Ali shot it, Wallace accessioned it into the world of scientific 
collections.  Neither actually discovered it.

Now, if it is a 1 mm beetle, the first to see is discovers it.

Mike

On 1/3/2019 11:13 AM, blaberus1 wrote:
> It is becoming evident that my first message wasn't very clear! I know that
> taxonomists can name new species after anyone they like and it's nice to
> name them after people who might benefit in some way/be eternally grateful
> etc.
>
> So my more specific question is:
>
> "Does anyone consider a collector to be the discoverer of a species if the
> collector did not realise it was new to science?"
>
> So would it be correct to state in print "Ali discovered S. wallacii"?
>
> Thanks!
>
> George
>
> On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 18:07, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I would agree in general principle to the 'greater good' - whatever seems
>> most appropriate to the describer/s at the time. There is no rule book. I
>> have one case of naming a species after a collector who was not the
>> original collector of the specimen, but who received it from another
>> collector, but brought it to my attention. I noticed that some of the names
>> in the article were compound names. One of my colleagues has indicated to
>> me a disinclination for such as they are often long and multisyllabic,
>> increasing potential for misspellings and challenging pronunciation. But I
>> have done so in a couple of cases where it was a condition of the collector
>> to access and describe the specimens.
>> John Grehan
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:58 PM Shorthouse, David <
>> davidpshorthouse at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> ...though to be sure, the children may not have been (and probably
>>> weren't) "collectors". The point here is that there is no formal
>>> credit system for collecting specimens. So, we might as well use the
>>> opportunity for a greater good whenever possible.
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:54 PM Shorthouse, David
>>> <davidpshorthouse at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> George -
>>>>
>>>> There is no better example than bestowing credit to collectors than
>>>> this one: https://doi.org/10.3897/JHR.50.8220. Kudos to the team of
>>>> taxonomists that honoured all the children involved. "The new species
>>>> described...received patronyms based on the winners of a school child
>>>> nature awareness competition conducted by the Programa de Educación
>>>> Biológica de ACG in the last half of 2015".
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:40 PM blaberus1 <g.beccaloni at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Perhaps I could ask: does anyone consider a collector to be the
>>> discoverer
>>>>> of a species if the collector did not realise it was new to science?
>>> The
>>>>> people I mentioned believe that it was Ali not Wallace who discovered
>>>>> Semioptera wallacii.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> George
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 3 Jan 2019 at 16:29, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> George,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my experience for the group of my study species have sometimes
>>> been
>>>>>> named for the collector, sometimes not. Seems to be a discretionary
>>> choice.
>>>>>> There seems to be no necessity for the Semioptera to have been
>>> named after
>>>>>> the collection. For the new species for which I have been involved
>>> with
>>>>>> none of the collectors who brought material to the attention of
>>> myself or
>>>>>> colleagues 'knew' in advance that they had a new species. I have
>>> found new
>>>>>> species in other groups and it would be absurd to expect that the
>>> species
>>>>>> should necessarily be named after me just because I found the
>>> specimens. I
>>>>>> think your critics are unfamiliar with normal taxonomic practice.
>>> I'll be
>>>>>> interested to what others on the list with broader experience have
>>> to say.
>>>>>> John Grehan
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 11:18 AM blaberus1 <g.beccaloni at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> I have been debating with historians of science and others for a
>>> while now
>>>>>>> about who discovered Semioptera wallacii (Standardwing Bird of
>>> Paradise):
>>>>>>> –
>>>>>>> was it Alfred Russel Wallace or his assistant Ali? They are
>>> arguing it was
>>>>>>> Ali as he shot the first specimen – and they believe it is a great
>>>>>>> injustice it was named after Wallace (in fact I have been called
>>> “racist”
>>>>>>> for arguing against this point of view!).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wallace wrote in his book *The Malay Archipelago* “Just as I got
>>> home I
>>>>>>> overtook Ali returning from shooting with some birds hanging from
>>> his
>>>>>>> belt.
>>>>>>> He seemed much pleased, and said, "Look here, sir, what a curious
>>> bird,"
>>>>>>> holding out what at first completely puzzled me. I saw a bird with
>>> a mass
>>>>>>> of splendid green feathers on its breast, elongated into two
>>> glittering
>>>>>>> tufts; but, what I could not understand was a pair of long white
>>> feathers,
>>>>>>> which stuck straight out from each shoulder. Ali assured me that
>>> the bird
>>>>>>> stuck them out this way itself, when fluttering its wings, and
>>> that they
>>>>>>> had remained so without his touching them. I now saw that I had
>>> got a
>>>>>>> great
>>>>>>> prize, no less than a completely new form of the Bird of Paradise,
>>>>>>> differing most remarkably from every other known bird.”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a taxonomist my argument is that while Ali collected the first
>>> specimen
>>>>>>> he did not know it was a species new to Western taxonomy. We are
>>> talking
>>>>>>> about species new to SCIENCE, not simply new to Ali. Unlike
>>> Wallace, Ali
>>>>>>> was illiterate and was not a biologist/taxonomist. Wallace,
>>> however,
>>>>>>> thanks
>>>>>>> to his in-depth knowledge of the birds of the region, immediately
>>>>>>> recognised that it was a new species. He excitedly wrote to his
>>> agent
>>>>>>> Stevens:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "...I believe I have already the finest & most wonderful bird in
>>> the
>>>>>>> island
>>>>>>> [Bacan, Indonesia]. I had a good mind to keep it a secret but I
>>> cannot
>>>>>>> resist telling you, I have got here a new Bird of Paradise!! of a
>>> new
>>>>>>> genus!!! quite unlike anything yet known, very curious & very
>>> handsome!!!
>>>>>>> When I can get a couple of pairs I will send them overland to see
>>> what a
>>>>>>> new Bird of Paradise will really fetch. I expect £25 each! Had I
>>> seen the
>>>>>>> bird in Ternate I would never have believed it came from here, so
>>> far out
>>>>>>> of the hitherto supposed region of the Paradiseidae. I consider it
>>> the
>>>>>>> greatest discovery I have yet made..." (Wallace, 1858)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So Wallace clearly thought HE had discovered it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The species was named in Wallace’s honour by Gray in 1859 -
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>> http://wallace-online.org/content/frameset?pageseq=1&itemID=WSPEC017&viewtype=text
>>>>>>> based on a sketch which Wallace had sent.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So my argument is that simply collecting a new species does not
>>> mean you
>>>>>>> discovered it – even if it is new to you personally. The
>>> discoverer is the
>>>>>>> person who realises it is a species not yet named by taxonomists.
>>> What do
>>>>>>> you think?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Incidentally, I note that none of 10 randomly selected species of
>>>>>>> cockroaches described in the last 10 years were named after the
>>> collectors
>>>>>>> of the holotypes of these species. Their names were, however,
>>> mentioned in
>>>>>>> the species descriptions, so they were credited for their efforts.
>>>>>>> Perhaps,
>>>>>>> however, some taxonomists do regularly name species after their
>>>>>>> collectors?
>>>>>>> Does anyone know whether this practice is commonly followed by
>>> taxonomists
>>>>>>> of particular groups?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> George Beccaloni
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nurturing Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 31 Some Years,
>>> 1987-2018.
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>>>
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-- 
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Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.

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