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[Taxacom] What is Homo sapiens

Stephen Thorpe stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Thu May 31 16:36:42 CDT 2018 

Yes, it was a bit of a rhetorical question to make a point about lumping vs. splitting of taxa above the species level. Misunderstanding and/or misuse of this issue can cause problems (and may be doing so in the Homo sapiens example). My pet hate example is Nothofagus, where two botanists from N.Z. have cause major disruption to centuries of usage by elevating the subgenera to full genera, just to make them fit slightly better with the divergence ages for other related taxa already recognised as genera (and in doing so conveniently for them got to formally rename everything with new combinations attibuted to themselves!)

Stephen

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 1/6/18, James K Adams <jadams at daltonstate.edu> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] What is Homo sapiens
 To: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, "Tony Rees" <tonyrees49 at gmail.com>, "Richard Zander" <Richard.Zander at mobot.org>, "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 Received: Friday, 1 June, 2018, 9:02 AM
 
 
 
 Stephen,
 
 
 
          The
 answer to your question is, of course, yes.  Any higher
 level taxon could be "defined" this way.  
 
 
 
 James
 
 
 
 
 
 
 James K. Adams
 
 Professor of Biology, Dalton State College
 
 706-272-4427; 678-767-5938
 
 visit the Georgia Lepidoptera website at
 
        
 http://dscweb.daltonstate.edu/galeps
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 From: Taxacom
 <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of
 Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 
 Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2018 4:55:23 PM
 
 To: taxacom; Tony Rees; Stephen Thorpe; Richard
 Zander
 
 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] What is Homo sapiens
  
 
 
 "A
 genus is a nexus of radiation from one ancestral species,
 adaptive or otherwise"
 
 
 
 Wouldn't this apply equally to any taxon above species?
 Isn't the entire kingdom Animalia "a nexus of
 radiation from one ancestral species"?
 
 
 
 Stephen
 
 
 
 --------------------------------------------
 
 On Fri, 1/6/18, Richard Zander
 <Richard.Zander at mobot.org> wrote:
 
 
 
  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] What is Homo sapiens
 
  To: "taxacom"
 <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, "Tony Rees"
 <tonyrees49 at gmail.com>, "Stephen Thorpe"
 <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 
  Received: Friday, 1 June, 2018, 8:31 AM
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  Sure, Stephen,
 
  there is a "universal criterion for what constitutes
 a
 
  genus". A genus is a nexus of radiation from one
 
  ancestral species, adaptive or otherwise. Since
 cladistics
 
  does not focus on multifurcations but seeks
 
   to eliminate them, there is no cladistic definition of
 a
 
  genus. Anyone whose ideational straightjacket is
 cladistics
 
  cannot even conceptualize a natural, empirically
 defined
 
  genus concept.
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  Richard
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  From: Taxacom
 
  <taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> on behalf of
 
  Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
 
  
 
  Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2018 6:13 PM
 
  
 
  To: taxacom; Tony Rees
 
  
 
  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] What is Homo sapiens
 
   
 
  
 
  
 
  "By
 
  logical extension, hypothetical neanderthalensis and
 
  heidelbergensis clades, regardless of their relationship
 to
 
  a sapiens clade, should be regarded as separate
 
  genera"
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  By logical extension, I would infer that the author is
 a
 
  cladist with little or no understanding of taxonomy!
 The
 
  quoted statement is nonsense at every level! It just
 makes
 
  no sense at all! There are no universal taxonomic
 criteria
 
  for what constitutes a genus
 
   (other than monophyly). Therefore you just make the
 genus
 
  Homo inclusive enough to include all 3 clades - easy
 peasy,
 
  problem solvedy!
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  Stephen
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  --------------------------------------------
 
  
 
  On Thu, 31/5/18, Tony Rees <tonyrees49 at gmail.com>
 
  wrote:
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
   Subject: Re: [Taxacom] What is Homo sapiens
 
  
 
   To: "taxacom"
 
  <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 
  
 
   Received: Thursday, 31 May, 2018, 11:00 AM
 
  
 
   
 
  
 
   From the cited paper:
 
  
 
   "...For, if the suggestion of a clade that
 
  includes
 
  
 
   H. sapiens is correct, it follows that Homo
 
  
 
   should be restricted to members
 
  
 
   of this
 
  
 
   clade. By logical extension, hypothetical
 
  neanderthalensis
 
  
 
   and
 
  
 
   heidelbergensis clades, regardless of
 
  
 
   their relationship to a sapiens
 
  
 
   clade,
 
  
 
   should be regarded as separate genera." This
 
  sounds
 
  
 
   like devil's
 
  
 
   advocacy to me (or
 
  
 
   reduction to the absurd) - if workers cannot even
 agree
 
  
 
   on whether of not neanderthalensis is a
 
  
 
   subspecies of sapiens, putting it
 
  
 
   into a
 
  
 
   separate genus makes no sense to this observer - or
 
  perhaps
 
  
 
   I am
 
  
 
   missing something.
 
  
 
   
 
  
 
   Also I noticed an odd statement at the
 
  
 
   beginning - "Thus it fell upon
 
  
 
   Blumenbach (1969) to provide the first
 
  
 
   morphological diagnosis of Homo
 
  
 
   sapiens." - especially considering that
 
  
 
   the Blumenbach in question died
 
  
 
   some 129
 
  
 
   years earlier (I remembered from the recent thread in
 
  which
 
  
 
   we
 
  
 
   discussed the earliest scientific name
 
  
 
   for the dingo). I checked the cited
 
  
 
   reference and it is a 1969 reprint of an 1865
 
  
 
   work published under the
 
  
 
   title "The
 
  
 
   anthropological treatises of Johann Friedrich
 
  
 
   Blumenbach", in
 
  
 
   which is reprinted 
 
  
 
   Blumenbach's "On the natural variety of
 
  
 
   mankind",
 
  
 
   first(?) published in 1775.
 
  
 
   So if "Blumenbach (1969)" were replaced by
 
  
 
   "Blumenbach
 
  
 
   (1775)"
 
  
 
   it would make rather more sense. Hopefully the
 remainder
 
  of
 
  
 
   the
 
  
 
   paper is a bit more factually correct
 
  
 
   :)
 
  
 
   
 
  
 
   Regards - Tony
 
  
 
   
 
  
 
   Tony Rees, New South Wales,
 
  
 
   Australia
 
  
 
   https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fabout.me%2FTonyRees&data%7C01%7Cjadams%40daltonstate.edu%7C62e97b0de3d14b5c649208d5c738d6bd%7Cb7e81e5d72424dff8f1e47d691148e41%7C0%7C1%7C636633969318176780&sdata=HxNK1JbbX3ToMKFAfLD542gzv%2FitarAoPRinDr5GR%2F0%3D&reserved=0
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  Tony Rees - New South Wales,
 
  Australia | about.me
 
  
 
  about.me
 
  
 
  I am a software engineer in New South Wales, Australia.
 
  Visit my website.
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
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