[Taxacom] Questions about availability of a species name
Stephen Thorpe
stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Fri Aug 24 17:54:09 CDT 2018
2018
John, with all due respect, I think that you are misrepresenting my position on this issue. You say "I do not think we should start accepting names as available where, under the code, they clearly are not". I can and do completely agree with that, with the only caveat that if an article in the Code is already somewhat vague, not clearly followed to the strictest reading by many authors at all, counterproductive to the extent that it invalidates good taxonomy based on a very minor technicality, creating confusion (i.e., what looks like a valid description of a new name actually fails to establish a new available name, and we still need to somehow track the unavailable name in the literature as if it were an available name, or else miss out on useful information about a good species), then it may, I suggest, be a better option pragmatically to simply note the problem but treat the name as if it were an available name, for the sake of the science rather than giving too much weight to minor technicalities in a somewhat officious book of rules!
Cheers,
Stephen
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 24/8/18, John Noyes <j.noyes at nhm.ac.uk> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Questions about availability of a species name
To: "'Michael A. Ivie'" <mivie at montana.edu>, "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Received: Friday, 24 August, 2018, 8:33 PM
Hi Jose,
Just to add my ha'penny's worth. I
completely disagree with Stephen and agree with Mike. This
sort of problem has happened on numerous occasions in
Chalcidoidea. I have always contacted the authors to ask
them to correct the problem in the way that Mike suggests
(in his later e-mail). I do not think we should start
accepting names as available where, under the code, they
clearly are not. The compilers of the code put this
requirement in for a reason. We may, or may not, agree with
it. It is easy for the authors to correct this problem in a
way that satisfies everyone and does not leave this hanging
in the air which is something we should all avoid..
John
John Noyes
Scientific
Associate
Department of Life Sciences
Natural History Museum
Cromwell
Road
South Kensington
London
SW7 5BD
UK
jsn at nhm.ac.uk
Tel.: +44 (0) 207 942 5594
Fax.: +44 (0) 207 942 5229
Universal Chalcidoidea Database (everything you
wanted to know about chalcidoids and more):
www.nhm.ac.uk/chalcidoids
-----Original Message-----
From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
On Behalf Of Michael A. Ivie
Sent: 23 August
2018 23:05
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Questions about
availability of a species name
Well, Stephen, it may be a country-specific
thing, but there are
numerous types of
"statements" that are not "statements in
words" that
are protected by US court
decisions as free speach. Mooning, flipping
someone off, burning a flag, emoticons and many
other statements are not
in words, but are
clearly statements.
Mike
;-
On 8/23/2018 3:20 PM, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> You can't seriously make a distinction
between "statement" and "statement in
words"!! This proves my point about pointless
"taxo-lawyering"!
> Stephen
>
>
--------------------------------------------
> On Thu, 23/8/18, Adam Cotton <adamcot at cscoms.com>
wrote:
>
> Subject:
Re: [Taxacom] Questions about availability of a species
name
> To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> Received: Thursday, 23 August, 2018,
11:48 PM
>
>
----- Original Message -----
> From:
"Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
> To: <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>;
> "Adam Cotton" <adamcot at cscoms.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 4:21
> PM
> Subject: Re:
[Taxacom] Questions about
>
availability of a species name
>
>
> > (BMNH)
isn't even a statement, but
> is
at most an indication that the
> >
specimen is from BMNH, but the
>
describing author may have the option of
> > depositing the type elsewhere,
> even if it is from BMNH, so we
cannot
> > assume that the specimen
will end
> up in the same collection
from which the
> > author received
it.
> >
>
>> "BMNH" already is a known name
> and location of the depository, and
thus
> >> fulfils the second
part
> > No it does not! The Code
requires
> a a STATEMENT indicating
the name and
> > location of that
collection! This
> is often given in
the methods section of
> > a paper,
but sometimes not.
> >
> > Stephen
>
>
> >
>
>
>
Stephen,
>
>
Here again I disagree. Article 16.4.2
>
is different to other Code articles.
>
Other articles use the phrase
>
"statement in words", whereas 16.4.2 only says
> "statement". As a result I do
not think
> that the statement has to
be a
> complete phrase or sentence.
>
> Most papers
will give a lits of
> acronyms used,
such as "BMNH = Natural
> History
Museum, London" or at least
>
include such in brackets somewhere in
>
the text. If the information about the
> holotype states: "Holotype blah
blah
> [data] (BMNH)" that
clearly means that
> the specimen is
in BMNH, thus there
> is a statement
of location of the
> holotype included
already, rather than
> requiring a
statement in words which
> would be
necessary for instance when
> giving
the purported difference between
> the
new taxon and previously
> described
related taxa.
>
> I do get your point that the
specimen
> may have been borrowed from
BMNH for
> purposes of the research
leading to the
> publication, but it
is unlikely that
> the author would
not state this fact.
>
> Adam.
>
>
_______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Send Taxacom mailing list
submissions
> to: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
be
> searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the
> Web, visit: http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing
the
> list at: taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>
> Nurturing
Nuance while Assaulting
> Ambiguity
for 31 Some Years, 1987-2018.
>
>
_______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
>
Send Taxacom mailing list submissions to: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web,
visit: http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
> You can reach the person managing the list
at: taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>
> Nurturing Nuance
while Assaulting Ambiguity for 31 Some Years, 1987-2018.
--
__________________________________________________
Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D.,
F.R.E.S.
NOTE: two
addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
US Post Office Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
PO Box
173145
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA
UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West
Lincoln Street
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59718
USA
(406)
994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Send
Taxacom mailing list submissions to: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web, visit:
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
You can reach the person managing the list at:
taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Nurturing Nuance while
Assaulting Ambiguity for 31 Some Years, 1987-2018.
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Send
Taxacom mailing list submissions to: Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Web, visit:
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
You can reach the person managing the list at:
taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Nurturing Nuance while
Assaulting Ambiguity for 31 Some Years, 1987-2018.
More information about the Taxacom
mailing list