[Taxacom] Literature request
Stephen Thorpe
stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Thu Aug 31 19:55:19 CDT 2017
2017
Mike said "Is it ok to steal a Versace bag because they sell for a stupidly high price?"
Straw man! I didn't say that it was ok to steal something because they sell for a stupidly high price! I said that selling it for a stupidly high price is tantamount to theft.
Stephen
--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 1/9/17, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Literature request
To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, "Vinícius Antonio de Oliveira Dittrich" <vinarc at gmail.com>, "Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Received: Friday, 1 September, 2017, 12:13 PM
Dear Stephen,
Sure it is theft, and I bet your mother would
agree with me (I bet your
mother is/was a
very nice, morally upright lady!). Taking something that
is not yours is theft. It does not matter
where it is. If it belongs to
someone else,
and you don't have their permission to take it, and you
take it anyway, it is theft. Very, very
simple, a 5 year old can handle
this.
And, selling something for an
outrageous amount is not theft, com'on
Stephen! That argument is beneath you. Is
it ok to steal a Versace bag
because they
sell for a stupidly high price? Of course not.
Mike
On 8/31/2017 6:05 PM, Stephen
Thorpe wrote:
> On the other hand, I
would say that theft is publishers selling scientific
literature for an exorbitant cost! It may be theft to upload
copyright protected material, but is it theft to download it
from a site that has illegally uploaded it, particularly if
only for fair use/noncommercial use? So, I guess, Mike, it
really ISN'T that simple!
>
> Stephen
>
>
--------------------------------------------
> On Fri, 1/9/17, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu>
wrote:
>
> Subject:
Re: [Taxacom] Literature request
> To:
"Vinícius Antonio de Oliveira Dittrich" <vinarc at gmail.com>,
"Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Received: Friday, 1 September, 2017,
11:20 AM
>
>
Dear Vinicius,
>
> No, you have not understood
> me. To me theft is wrong. If there
is a
> law against theft of
biodiversity, to violate
> it is theft
and is
> wrong. If there is
> property that is not mine, and I take
it, it is
> theft and it is wrong.
Theft of intellectual
> property is as
wrong as
> theft of
> biodiversity or theft of a car.
Downloading an open access
>
> paper is not theft, it is not wrong.
If
> your papers are open access,
> wonderful,
>
thank you, and anyone who takes them are morally correct.
> If
> you write a
book, and it is for sale and
> covered
by copyright, and
> someone makes a
> PDF and distributes it without your
permission it is
> theft. This is
really very simple.
>
> Mike
>
>
> On 8/31/2017
5:09 PM,
> Vinícius Antonio de
Oliveira Dittrich wrote:
> >
> > Dear Michael,
> >
> >
I think your
> point of view is not
wrong, but is not right also. To
>
> me, steal intellectual property of others
> is to publish anything that
> > is not
>
mine, but I just put my name there as the author. Copying
>
> > anything
else for personal use is not
> steal
(the definition of piracy)
> >
–
> BTW, I wish all my papers and
books and everything else
> could
be
> > copied by any person,
without
> any cost: science is not
something to
> >
> profit, just as education is not… but
many will disagree,
> for obvious
> > reasons. Regarding
> specimens carried out from Brazil, for
many and
> > many years this was
the rule, and if we
> want to see
those specimens,
> > we have
> to travel a lot and spend too much
money for this, because
>
> > those specimens will never return
to
> Brazil. So, your reasoning
seems
> > to
>
be: steal part of the biodiversity is OK, but copying a
> chapter of
> >
a book no. Or maybe
> I've not
understood what you wrote.
> >
> > Best regard,
> >
> >
Vinícius
> >
> >
> >
> 2017-08-31 19:30 GMT-03:00 Michael A.
Ivie <mivie at montana.edu
>
> >
<mailto:mivie at montana.edu>>:
> >
> >
I note your
> irony Geoff,
> >
> >
> It always amazes me when people are so
cavalier about
> simple
> > theft. I want it, I
> don't want to pay for it, he has
it, I will
> > steal it.
Poor me. No moral
> compunction at
all.
> >
>
> Particularly when a country is so
> fanatical about anyone stealing
> >
> their
biodiversity specimens, but are completely OK with
> their
> >
scientists stealing
>
intellectual property of others. Brazil is an
> > example, tons of stolen
literature
> available there, but try
taking
> > a
> beetle out without "paying"
for it, that means
> jail! Just
an
> > example, there
> are more countries like this than
countries not
> > like
this. Some you can steal both
>
specimens and books.
> >
> > Grumpy Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
On 8/31/2017 4:06 PM, Geoff Read
>
wrote:
> >
>
>
> Well it's a modernish book
in print available from
> the
> > publisher, or
> > secondhand for a
small sum.
> >
> > You mean
> perhaps where can you get a pirated
pdf?
> >
>
> Try
> Google - a
dodgy Russian site has it.
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> >
> > On Fri, September 1,
2017 3:42
> am, Luis POPA wrote:
> >
> >
Dear Taxacomers,
>
> Does anyone know a place
> where I can find an electronic
> >
>
version of the
> >
> book bellow? Actually I'm
interested only in the
> chapter
> > on random
> > genetic drift
(pages
> 88-98).
> >
> >
> Hartl, D.L. 2000. A Primer of
Population Genetics
> (3rd
> > ed.).
Sinauer
> >
Associates, Sunderland,
> MA
> >
> >
> Thank you very much.
> >
> Best
regards,
> >
>
luis
> >
>
>
> > --
> > Luis Popa,
Ph.D.
> > Senior
Scientist
> >
General Director
> >
"Grigore
> Antipa"
National Museum of Natural History
>
> Sos. Kiseleff No. 1
> > Bucharest
011341
> >
ROMANIA
> > Tel:
004 021 312 88
> 26
> > Fax: 004 021
312
> 88 63
>
> Mobile: 004
>
0757 096 442
> >
> >
> >
--
> >
> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> >
>
Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> >
> gread at actrix.gen.nz
> <mailto:gread at actrix.gen.nz>
> >
> >
>
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Nurturing
> Nuance while
Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years,
> > 1987-2017.
> >
> >
> > --
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
> >
> >
Michael A.
> Ivie, Ph.D.,
F.R.E.S.
> >
>
> NOTE: two addresses with different
> Zip Codes depending on carriers
> >
> >
US Post Office Address:
> >
Montana Entomology Collection
>
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
>
> PO Box 173145
> >
> Montana State University
> >
> Bozeman,
MT 59717
> > USA
> >
> >
UPS, FedEx, DHL
> Address:
> > Montana Entomology
> Collection
>
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
>
> 1911 West Lincoln Street
>
> Montana State University
>
> Bozeman, MT 59718
> >
USA
> >
>
>
> > (406) 994-4610
>
<tel:%28406%29%20994-4610> (voice)
> > (406) 994-6029
>
<tel:%28406%29%20994-6029> (FAX)
> > mivie at montana.edu
> <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>
> >
> >
> >
>
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Nurturing
> Nuance while
Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years,
> > 1987-2017.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
Prof. Dr. Vinícius Antonio de Oliveira
> Dittrich
> >
Chefe do Departamento de
> Botânica -
ICB - UFJF
> > Curador do
> Herbário CESJ
>
> Instituto de Ciências
>
Biológicas, Universidade Federal de Juiz de Fora
> > Rua José Lourenço Kelmer, s/n -
Campus
> Universitário, Bairro São
Pedro
> > Juiz
> de Fora, MG, Brazil - CEP 36036-900
> >
> Phone: 55
(32) 2102-3224
> > Panoramio
> <http://www.panoramio.com/user/vina>
> > Pteridófitas - diversidade e
> conservação
>
> <http://www.icb.ufmg.br/pteridofitas/>
> > Herbário CESJ <http://www.ufjf.br/herbario/>
> > Academia.edu <http://ufjf-br.academia.edu/Vin%C3%ADciusDittrich>
> > Researchgate
> > <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Vinicius_Dittrich2?ev=prf_highl>
> > Flickr <http://www.flickr.com/photos/60085925 at N02/>
> > Fototeca Vinícius Dittrich
> > <http://splink.cria.org.br/manager/detail?setlang=pt&resource=FVD>
> > Skype: vinacrt
>
> --
>
__________________________________________________
>
> Michael A.
Ivie, Ph.D.,
> F.R.E.S.
>
> NOTE: two
> addresses with different Zip Codes
depending on carriers
>
> US Post Office Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> PO Box
>
173145
> Montana State University
> Bozeman, MT 59717
> USA
>
> UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
> Montana Entomology Collection
> Marsh Labs, Room 50
> 1911 West
>
Lincoln Street
> Montana State
University
> Bozeman, MT 59718
> USA
>
>
> (406)
> 994-4610 (voice)
>
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
> mivie at montana.edu
>
>
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>
> Nurturing
Nuance while
> Assaulting Ambiguity
for 30 Some Years, 1987-2017.
>
> .
>
--
__________________________________________________
Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D.,
F.R.E.S.
NOTE: two
addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
US Post Office Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
PO Box
173145
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59717
USA
UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
Montana Entomology Collection
Marsh Labs, Room 50
1911 West
Lincoln Street
Montana State University
Bozeman, MT 59718
USA
(406)
994-4610 (voice)
(406) 994-6029 (FAX)
mivie at montana.edu
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