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[Taxacom] Literature request

Stephen Thorpe stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
Thu Aug 31 19:05:23 CDT 2017 

On the other hand, I would say that theft is publishers selling scientific literature for an exorbitant cost! It may be theft to upload copyright protected material, but is it theft to download it from a site that has illegally uploaded it, particularly if only for fair use/noncommercial use? So, I guess, Mike, it really ISN'T that simple!

Stephen

--------------------------------------------
On Fri, 1/9/17, Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Literature request
 To: "Vinícius Antonio de Oliveira Dittrich" <vinarc at gmail.com>, "Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 Received: Friday, 1 September, 2017, 11:20 AM
 
 Dear Vinicius,
 
 No, you have not understood
 me.  To me theft is wrong.  If there is a 
 law against theft of biodiversity, to violate
 it is theft and is 
 wrong.   If there is
 property that is not mine, and I take it, it is 
 theft and it is wrong.  Theft of intellectual
 property is as wrong as 
 theft of
 biodiversity or theft of a car. Downloading an open access
 
 paper is not theft, it is not wrong.  If
 your papers are open access, 
 wonderful,
 thank you, and anyone who takes them are morally correct. 
 If 
 you write a book, and it is for sale and
 covered by copyright, and 
 someone makes a
 PDF and distributes it without your permission it is 
 theft. This is really very simple.
 
 Mike
 
 
 On 8/31/2017 5:09 PM,
 Vinícius Antonio de Oliveira Dittrich wrote:
 >
 >    Dear Michael,
 >
 >    I think your
 point of view is not wrong, but is not right also. To 
 > me, steal intellectual property of others
 is to publish anything that 
 > is not
 mine, but I just put my name there as the author. Copying
 
 > anything else for personal use is not
 steal (the definition of piracy) 
 > –
 BTW, I wish all my papers and books and everything else
 could be 
 > copied by any person, without
 any cost: science is not something to 
 >
 profit, just as education is not… but many will disagree,
 for obvious 
 > reasons. Regarding
 specimens carried out from Brazil, for many and 
 > many years this was the rule, and if we
 want to see those specimens, 
 > we have
 to travel a lot and spend too much money for this, because
 
 > those specimens will never return to
 Brazil. So, your reasoning seems 
 > to
 be: steal part of the biodiversity is OK, but copying a
 chapter of 
 > a book no. Or maybe
 I've not understood what you wrote.
 >
 >    Best regard,
 >
 >    Vinícius
 >
 >
 >
 2017-08-31 19:30 GMT-03:00 Michael A. Ivie <mivie at montana.edu
 
 > <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>>:
 >
 >     I note your
 irony Geoff,
 >
 >    
 It always amazes me when people are so cavalier about
 simple
 >     theft. I want it, I
 don't want to pay for it, he has it, I will
 >     steal it.  Poor me. No moral
 compunction at all.
 >
 >     Particularly when a country is so
 fanatical about anyone stealing
 >    
 their biodiversity specimens, but are completely OK with
 their
 >     scientists stealing
 intellectual property of others.  Brazil is an
 >     example, tons of stolen literature
 available there, but try taking
 >     a
 beetle out without "paying" for it,  that means
 jail!  Just an
 >     example, there
 are more countries like this than countries not
 >     like this.  Some you can steal both
 specimens and books.
 >
 >     Grumpy Mike
 >
 >
 >
 >     On 8/31/2017 4:06 PM, Geoff Read
 wrote:
 >
 >        
 Well it's a modernish book in print available from
 the
 >         publisher, or
 >         secondhand for a small sum.
 >
 >         You mean
 perhaps where can you get a pirated pdf?
 >
 >         Try
 Google - a dodgy Russian site has it.
 >
 >         Geoff
 >
 >
 >         On Fri, September 1, 2017 3:42
 am, Luis POPA wrote:
 >
 >             Dear Taxacomers,
 >             Does anyone know a place
 where I can find an electronic
 >     
        version of the
 >         
    book bellow? Actually I'm interested only in the
 chapter
 >             on random
 >             genetic drift (pages
 88-98).
 >
 >       
      Hartl, D.L. 2000. A Primer of Population Genetics
 (3rd
 >             ed.). Sinauer
 >             Associates, Sunderland,
 MA
 >
 >         
    Thank you very much.
 >         
    Best regards,
 >            
 luis
 >
 >
 >             --
 >             Luis Popa, Ph.D.
 >             Senior Scientist
 >             General Director
 >             "Grigore
 Antipa" National Museum of Natural History
 >             Sos. Kiseleff No. 1
 >             Bucharest  011341
 >             ROMANIA
 >             Tel: 004 021 312 88
 26
 >             Fax: 004 021 312
 88 63
 >             Mobile: 004
 0757 096 442
 >
 >
 >         --
 >   
      Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
 >     
    Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
 >        
 gread at actrix.gen.nz
 <mailto:gread at actrix.gen.nz>
 >
 >        
 _______________________________________________
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 >
 >         Nurturing
 Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years,
 >         1987-2017.
 >
 >
 >     -- 
 >    
 __________________________________________________
 >
 >     Michael A.
 Ivie, Ph.D., F.R.E.S.
 >
 >     NOTE: two addresses with different
 Zip Codes depending on carriers
 >
 >     US Post Office Address:
 >     Montana Entomology Collection
 >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
 >     PO Box 173145
 > 
    Montana State University
 >    
 Bozeman, MT 59717
 >     USA
 >
 >     UPS, FedEx, DHL
 Address:
 >     Montana Entomology
 Collection
 >     Marsh Labs, Room 50
 >     1911 West Lincoln Street
 >     Montana State University
 >     Bozeman, MT 59718
 >     USA
 >
 >
 >     (406) 994-4610
 <tel:%28406%29%20994-4610> (voice)
 >     (406) 994-6029
 <tel:%28406%29%20994-6029> (FAX)
 >     mivie at montana.edu
 <mailto:mivie at montana.edu>
 >
 >
 >    
 _______________________________________________
 >     Taxacom Mailing List
 >     Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 <mailto:Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>,
 >     http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >     <http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom>
 >     The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
 be searched at:
 >     http://taxacom.markmail.org
 >
 >     Send Taxacom
 mailing list submissions to
 >     taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
 <mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
 >     To subscribe or unsubscribe via the
 Web, visit:
 >     http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
 >     <http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom>
 >     You can reach the person managing
 the list at:
 >     taxacom-owner at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
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 >
 >     Nurturing
 Nuance while Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years,
 >     1987-2017.
 >
 >
 >
 >
 > -- 
 > Prof. Dr. Vinícius Antonio de Oliveira
 Dittrich
 > Chefe do Departamento de
 Botânica - ICB - UFJF
 > Curador do
 Herbário CESJ
 > Instituto de Ciências
 Biológicas, Universidade Federal de Juiz de Fora
 > Rua José Lourenço Kelmer, s/n - Campus
 Universitário, Bairro São Pedro
 > Juiz
 de Fora, MG, Brazil - CEP 36036-900
 >
 Phone: 55 (32) 2102-3224
 > Panoramio
 <http://www.panoramio.com/user/vina>
 > Pteridófitas - diversidade e
 conservação 
 > <http://www.icb.ufmg.br/pteridofitas/>
 > Herbário CESJ <http://www.ufjf.br/herbario/>
 > Academia.edu <http://ufjf-br.academia.edu/Vin%C3%ADciusDittrich>
 > Researchgate 
 > <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Vinicius_Dittrich2?ev=prf_highl>
 > Flickr <http://www.flickr.com/photos/60085925 at N02/>
 > Fototeca Vinícius Dittrich 
 > <http://splink.cria.org.br/manager/detail?setlang=pt&resource=FVD>
 > Skype: vinacrt
 
 -- 
 __________________________________________________
 
 Michael A. Ivie, Ph.D.,
 F.R.E.S.
 
 NOTE: two
 addresses with different Zip Codes depending on carriers
 
 US Post Office Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 PO Box
 173145
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59717
 USA
 
 UPS, FedEx, DHL Address:
 Montana Entomology Collection
 Marsh Labs, Room 50
 1911 West
 Lincoln Street
 Montana State University
 Bozeman, MT 59718
 USA
 
 
 (406)
 994-4610 (voice)
 (406) 994-6029 (FAX)
 mivie at montana.edu
 
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 Nurturing Nuance while
 Assaulting Ambiguity for 30 Some Years, 1987-2017.

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