[Taxacom] Taxacom Digest, Vol 128, Issue 23
Antonio =?utf-8?B?TMOzcGV6?= Almirall
cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu
Fri Dec 30 10:36:33 CST 2016
2016
Unfortunately the situation is very complex. It is a set of pine forests
with some ten hectares each, in the middle of a rain forest. We have studied
these pine phenology for 22 years.
We know irregularities: exceptional trees having in any of the studied
stands outside of time a few cones (5 or 6), male or female. But with that
amount possible crosses are close to zero. On the other hand, the definition
of species is clear: If there are no crosses are different species. This is
a situation that exceeds my knowledge, my experience.
Antonio
P.D. P:D.Thank you for your response and aid.
-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-request at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 12:00:01 -0600
Subject: Taxacom Digest, Vol 128, Issue 23
Daily News from the Taxacom Mailing List
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Today's Topics:
1. Webinar on International Research Funding (Julie Palakovich Carr)
2. How to generate biogeographic and ecological nonsense
(John Grehan)
3. Re: How to generate biogeographic and ecological nonsense
(Stephen Thorpe)
4. Re: How to generate biogeographic and ecological nonsense
(John Grehan)
5. small *and* cheap circular microscope cover slips
(Jorge A. Santiago-Blay)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 17:30:55 -0500
From: Julie Palakovich Carr <jpalakovichcarr at aibs.org>
To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: [Taxacom] Webinar on International Research Funding
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Have an interest in pursuing science outside of the U.S.? Tune in for a
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2017 at 1 pm (Eastern).
Register at
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[https://www.aibs.org/events/webinar/inter-research-funding-opportunities.html]
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 18:46:39 -0500
From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: [Taxacom] How to generate biogeographic and ecological
nonsense
Message-ID:
<CADN0ud2MotrVbRXca9RkkwWyc-NbmWZ=ZgK7crzMmn4oos5oEg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
As most list members no doubt appreciate, one cannot use the geological
ages of mountains or islands to uncritically make up maximum divergence
dates. A good example of the biogeographic mess that is otherwise created
(and remains a heavy burden on the scientific integrity of many New Zealand
studies) is illustrated by Heads for *Maoricicada* in New Zealand as
follows:
“Buckley et al. (2001) calibrated the timeline for phylogeny in*
Maoricicada* *campbelli* by assuming that *Maoricicada* was no older than
the current alpine habitat (~ 5 Ma), as the genus is mainly alpine. This
makes the assumption that taxa currently located in the alpine zone require
alpine habitat, and this is not necessarily correct. In any case, *M.
lindsayi* occurs at 0-500 m elevation, and *M. campbelli* itself is
recorded from 10 to 1580 m (Buckley and Simon, 2007). In fact, most of the
“alpine” species of *Maoricicada *are known from some localities below
the
alpine zone; 10 out of 14 have populations at less than 1000 m (around the
level of the tree line) and several have populations in the lowlands
(Dugdale and Fleming, 1978). These records suggest that *Maoricicada* and
at least some of its diversity existed before the present alpine
environment developed, surviving in lowland areas of open vegetation. The
diverse ancestral complex would have been inherited by the mountains of the
Kaikoura orogeny, as they rose. If this was the history, it would undermine
a habitat calibration based on the age of the mountains.
Based on the “mountain age” *habitat *calibration, Buckley et al.
(2001)
calculated that the earliest divergence within *M. campbelli* occurred at
2.3 Ma, and they concluded: “We cannot reconcile the earliest date of
divergence within M. campbelli with rifting along the Alpine Fault, a
process that began to accelerate 10 million years ago.” Yet the young age
they calculated for divergence in *M. campbelli* is based on the doubtful
assumption they made about the age of the genus.
Buckley et al. (2001) assumed that alpine taxa in Maoricicada could be no
older than their alpine habitats. In a subsequent study of the genus,
Buckley and Simon (2007) abandoned this method. Instead, though, they
calibrated a molecular clock for *Maoricicada *by assuming that related
cicadas, endemic on Norfolk Island and Kermadec Islands, could be no older
than their current *islands*. But islands are just another habitat type
within a region, as are mountains, leaf surfaces, or puddles. The existence
of *prior* islands in the region means that calibration using island age,
will, as will calibration using habitat age, give dates for clades that are
too young by an indeterminate amount. Buckley and Simon (2007) found that
*Maoricicada* diverged only in the mid-Miocene. This date is too young (by
how much is not known), but at least it confirms that *Maoricicada* existed
before the origin of high montane habitats.
Hill et al. (2009) carried out further studies on *Maoricicada campbelli*
and confirmed that the main break in *M. campbelli* is between a Central
Otago clade and the rest. They wrote “we can only speculated as to what
process initiated both the divergence of *M. campbelli *from the rest of
Maoricicada at <2.6 Ma, and the main *M. campbelli* split at 1.5-2.1 Ma”
(p. 13). As discussed, the “island age” calibration (from Buckley and
Simon, 2007) that these dates depend on is flawed.
The authors based their conclusions on these dates, but they did not refer
to major geological features at the boundaries, such as the Moonlight
tectonic zone, and instead suggested that increased sedimentation of river
gravel caused by rising mountains produced habitat “into which *M.
campbelli *evolved” (p. 14). The new sedimentation and new habitat might
explain local range expansion or contraction in the group during the
Kaikoura orogeny, but they do not account for the *location* of the mean
break in the species.”
John Grehan
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 03:02:34 +0000 (UTC)
From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
To: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, John Grehan
<calabar.john at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] How to generate biogeographic and ecological
nonsense
Message-ID: <563150603.3433172.1482980554275 at mail.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
One certainly cannot uncritically accept anything by those authors! Mind
you, one should not uncritically accept anything by any authors!
Stephen
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 29/12/16, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
Subject: [Taxacom] How to generate biogeographic and ecological nonsense
To: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Received: Thursday, 29 December, 2016, 12:46 PM
As most list members no doubt
appreciate, one cannot use the geological
ages of mountains or islands to uncritically make up maximum
divergence
dates. A good example of the biogeographic mess that is
otherwise created
(and remains a heavy burden on the scientific integrity of
many New Zealand
studies) is illustrated by Heads for *Maoricicada* in New
Zealand as
follows:
“Buckley et al. (2001) calibrated the timeline for
phylogeny in*
Maoricicada* *campbelli* by assuming that *Maoricicada* was
no older than
the current alpine habitat (~ 5 Ma), as the genus is mainly
alpine. This
makes the assumption that taxa currently located in the
alpine zone require
alpine habitat, and this is not necessarily correct. In any
case, *M.
lindsayi* occurs at 0-500 m elevation, and *M. campbelli*
itself is
recorded from 10 to 1580 m (Buckley and Simon, 2007). In
fact, most of the
“alpine” species of *Maoricicada *are known from some
localities below the
alpine zone; 10 out of 14 have populations at less than 1000
m (around the
level of the tree line) and several have populations in the
lowlands
(Dugdale and Fleming, 1978). These records suggest that
*Maoricicada* and
at least some of its diversity existed before the present
alpine
environment developed, surviving in lowland areas of open
vegetation. The
diverse ancestral complex would have been inherited by the
mountains of the
Kaikoura orogeny, as they rose. If this was the history, it
would undermine
a habitat calibration based on the age of the mountains.
Based on the “mountain age” *habitat *calibration,
Buckley et al. (2001)
calculated that the earliest divergence within *M.
campbelli* occurred at
2.3 Ma, and they concluded: “We cannot reconcile the
earliest date of
divergence within M. campbelli with rifting along the Alpine
Fault, a
process that began to accelerate 10 million years ago.”
Yet the young age
they calculated for divergence in *M. campbelli* is based on
the doubtful
assumption they made about the age of the genus.
Buckley et al. (2001) assumed that alpine taxa in
Maoricicada could be no
older than their alpine habitats. In a subsequent study of
the genus,
Buckley and Simon (2007) abandoned this method. Instead,
though, they
calibrated a molecular clock for *Maoricicada *by assuming
that related
cicadas, endemic on Norfolk Island and Kermadec Islands,
could be no older
than their current *islands*. But islands are just another
habitat type
within a region, as are mountains, leaf surfaces, or
puddles. The existence
of *prior* islands in the region means that calibration
using island age,
will, as will calibration using habitat age, give dates for
clades that are
too young by an indeterminate amount. Buckley and Simon
(2007) found that
*Maoricicada* diverged only in the mid-Miocene. This date is
too young (by
how much is not known), but at least it confirms that
*Maoricicada* existed
before the origin of high montane habitats.
Hill et al. (2009) carried out further studies on
*Maoricicada campbelli*
and confirmed that the main break in *M. campbelli* is
between a Central
Otago clade and the rest. They wrote “we can only
speculated as to what
process initiated both the divergence of *M. campbelli *from
the rest of
Maoricicada at <2.6 Ma, and the main *M. campbelli* split
at 1.5-2.1 Ma”
(p. 13). As discussed, the “island age” calibration
(from Buckley and
Simon, 2007) that these dates depend on is flawed.
The authors based their conclusions on these dates, but they
did not refer
to major geological features at the boundaries, such as the
Moonlight
tectonic zone, and instead suggested that increased
sedimentation of river
gravel caused by rising mountains produced habitat “into
which *M.
campbelli *evolved” (p. 14). The new sedimentation and new
habitat might
explain local range expansion or contraction in the group
during the
Kaikoura orogeny, but they do not account for the *location*
of the mean
break in the species.”
John Grehan
_______________________________________________
Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
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Injecting Intellectual Liquidity for 29 years.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2016 23:09:51 -0500
From: John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com>
To: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
Cc: taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] How to generate biogeographic and ecological
nonsense
Message-ID:
<CADN0ud3UW203vshSYQA8LWo-PM0c3u0i9_1TyZRPySsokmb-cg at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Agree absolutely - to the general point that is (I have no judgement to
pass on the authors in particular). The uncritical, pervasive and widely
continuing misrepresentation of minimal divergence estimates as maximal is
the underlying problem here. The Maoricicada example just provides a good
illustration of what results from bad (molecular underestimate) science.
John Grehan
On Wed, Dec 28, 2016 at 10:02 PM, Stephen Thorpe
<stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz
> wrote:
> One certainly cannot uncritically accept anything by those authors! Mind
> you, one should not uncritically accept anything by any authors!
>
> Stephen
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Thu, 29/12/16, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: [Taxacom] How to generate biogeographic and ecological nonsense
> To: "taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
> Received: Thursday, 29 December, 2016, 12:46 PM
>
> As most list members no doubt
> appreciate, one cannot use the geological
> ages of mountains or islands to uncritically make up maximum
> divergence
> dates. A good example of the biogeographic mess that is
> otherwise created
> (and remains a heavy burden on the scientific integrity of
> many New Zealand
> studies) is illustrated by Heads for *Maoricicada* in New
> Zealand as
> follows:
>
>
> “Buckley et al. (2001) calibrated the timeline for
> phylogeny in*
> Maoricicada* *campbelli* by assuming that *Maoricicada* was
> no older than
> the current alpine habitat (~ 5 Ma), as the genus is mainly
> alpine. This
> makes the assumption that taxa currently located in the
> alpine zone require
> alpine habitat, and this is not necessarily correct. In any
> case, *M.
> lindsayi* occurs at 0-500 m elevation, and *M. campbelli*
> itself is
> recorded from 10 to 1580 m (Buckley and Simon, 2007). In
> fact, most of the
> “alpine” species of *Maoricicada *are known from some
> localities below the
> alpine zone; 10 out of 14 have populations at less than 1000
> m (around the
> level of the tree line) and several have populations in the
> lowlands
> (Dugdale and Fleming, 1978). These records suggest that
> *Maoricicada* and
> at least some of its diversity existed before the present
> alpine
> environment developed, surviving in lowland areas of open
> vegetation. The
> diverse ancestral complex would have been inherited by the
> mountains of the
> Kaikoura orogeny, as they rose. If this was the history, it
> would undermine
> a habitat calibration based on the age of the mountains.
>
>
> Based on the “mountain age” *habitat *calibration,
> Buckley et al. (2001)
> calculated that the earliest divergence within *M.
> campbelli* occurred at
> 2.3 Ma, and they concluded: “We cannot reconcile the
> earliest date of
> divergence within M. campbelli with rifting along the Alpine
> Fault, a
> process that began to accelerate 10 million years ago.”
> Yet the young age
> they calculated for divergence in *M. campbelli* is based on
> the doubtful
> assumption they made about the age of the genus.
>
>
> Buckley et al. (2001) assumed that alpine taxa in
> Maoricicada could be no
> older than their alpine habitats. In a subsequent study of
> the genus,
> Buckley and Simon (2007) abandoned this method. Instead,
> though, they
> calibrated a molecular clock for *Maoricicada *by assuming
> that related
> cicadas, endemic on Norfolk Island and Kermadec Islands,
> could be no older
> than their current *islands*. But islands are just another
> habitat type
> within a region, as are mountains, leaf surfaces, or
> puddles. The existence
> of *prior* islands in the region means that calibration
> using island age,
> will, as will calibration using habitat age, give dates for
> clades that are
> too young by an indeterminate amount. Buckley and Simon
> (2007) found that
> *Maoricicada* diverged only in the mid-Miocene. This date is
> too young (by
> how much is not known), but at least it confirms that
> *Maoricicada* existed
> before the origin of high montane habitats.
>
>
> Hill et al. (2009) carried out further studies on
> *Maoricicada campbelli*
> and confirmed that the main break in *M. campbelli* is
> between a Central
> Otago clade and the rest. They wrote “we can only
> speculated as to what
> process initiated both the divergence of *M. campbelli *from
> the rest of
> Maoricicada at <2.6 Ma, and the main *M. campbelli* split
> at 1.5-2.1 Ma”
> (p. 13). As discussed, the “island age” calibration
> (from Buckley and
> Simon, 2007) that these dates depend on is flawed.
>
>
>
> The authors based their conclusions on these dates, but they
> did not refer
> to major geological features at the boundaries, such as the
> Moonlight
> tectonic zone, and instead suggested that increased
> sedimentation of river
> gravel caused by rising mountains produced habitat “into
> which *M.
> campbelli *evolved” (p. 14). The new sedimentation and new
> habitat might
> explain local range expansion or contraction in the group
> during the
> Kaikoura orogeny, but they do not account for the *location*
> of the mean
> break in the species.”
>
>
>
> John Grehan
> _______________________________________________
> Taxacom Mailing List
> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
[http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom]
> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
> http://taxacom.markmail.org [http://taxacom.markmail.org/]
>
> Injecting Intellectual Liquidity for 29 years.
>
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 06:58:45 -0500
From: "Jorge A. Santiago-Blay" <blayjorge at gmail.com>
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: [Taxacom] small *and* cheap circular microscope cover slips
Message-ID:
<CAGBdDuDd99qyj4k8U-dr74cyVWEqcxjNDCjUGSvPZ0qGS_DK5Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
small *and* cheap circular microscope cover slips
Dear Colleagues:
I am looking for a reliable supplier of small (say, 12 mm or less) *and*
cheap circular microscope cover slips. Note: I have already contacted
suppliers available on the web but wish to have a larger choice. If you
have recommendations, please email me directly,
blayjorge at gmail.com
Apologies for potential duplicate emails.
Happy 2017, in gratefulness,
Jorge
Jorge A. Santiago-Blay, PhD
blaypublishers.com
1. Positive experiences for authors of papers published in *LEB*
http://blaypublishers.com/testimonials/
[http://blaypublishers.com/testimonials/]
2. Free examples of papers published in *LEB*:
http://blaypublishers.com/category/previous-issues/
[http://blaypublishers.com/category/previous-issues/].
3. *Guidelines for Authors* and page charges of *LEB*:
http://blaypublishers.com/archives/ [http://blaypublishers.com/archives/]
*.*
4. Want to subscribe to *LEB*? http://blaypublishers.com/subscriptions/
[http://blaypublishers.com/subscriptions/]
http://blayjorge.wordpress.com/ [http://blayjorge.wordpress.com/]
http://paleobiology.si.edu/staff/individuals/santiagoblay.cfm
[http://paleobiology.si.edu/staff/individuals/santiagoblay.cfm]
------------------------------
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------------------------------
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