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[Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles

Anthony Gill gill.anthony at gmail.com
Sat Apr 25 20:43:32 CDT 2015 

Well, I've just set up a bunch of monkeys on laptops. I'm not expecting
Shakespeare's sonnets, but given enough time I'm hoping they'll knock out a
decent taxonomic monograph or two.

On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 8:34 AM, John Grehan <calabar.john at gmail.com> wrote:

> If Stephen's view of biogeography is that it is just a series of beliefs
> or assertions then there is certainly not much more to be said about that.
> Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and there is no where further to go
> with that. But if one views biogeography as a science in the sense of
> applying methods of analysis (of geography and phylogeny) then one goes
> beyond just stating a personal belief to presenting a reasoned judgement or
> argument about the efficacy of particular methods and their results - as
> with any other science.
>
> John Grehan
>
> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 6:15 PM, Stephen Thorpe <
> stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> wrote:
>
>> Biogeography is just a pompous "academic" (in the worst sense) waste of
>> time! Putting aside, for present purposes, the vast issue of marine
>> biogeography, chance transoceanic dispersal of terrestrials is *unlikely*,
>> yes, but all that means is that it isn't going to happen lots of times in a
>> short stretch of time. Given many millions of years, it can still happen
>> often enough to be a significant factor. There seems to be a slide from
>> "unlikely to happen" to "can't happen"! Any academic discipline which is
>> based ultimately on chance events is not going to be very useful!
>> Biogeography ... we don't need to know! The existence of sister taxa on
>> adjacent islands (or other landmasses) can be explained equally well by
>> dispersal (since dispersal is most likely to happen between adjacent
>> landmasses) or by vicariance (since vicariance is most likely to happen
>> between adjacent landmasses)!
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>> --------------------------------------------
>> On Sun, 26/4/15, Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org> wrote:
>>
>>  Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles
>>  To: "'Anthony Gill'" <gill.anthony at gmail.com>, "'Karl Magnacca'" <
>> kmagnacca at wesleyan.edu>
>>  Cc: "'TAXACOM'" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>, "'Dr. Antonio Lopez'" <
>> cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu>
>>  Received: Sunday, 26 April, 2015, 12:35 AM
>>
>>  The same argument could
>>  be applied to ANY model of biogeography (dispersal,
>>  vicariance, panbiogeography, etc., etc.)  That is, any
>>  presumption that any single model accounts for every pattern
>>  (or even most patterns) is, in my opinion, naïve.  This is
>>  not to say that, in the end, one model does not dominate.
>>  But we are SO, SO, SO far away from understanding both
>>  evolutionary history and the actual distribution patterns of
>>  most living things, that only people who don't really
>>  understand the nature of biodiversity make claims that we
>>  are close to fully understanding it.
>>
>>  Aloha,
>>  Rich
>>
>>
>>  > -----Original
>>  Message-----
>>  > From: Taxacom [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu]
>>  On Behalf Of
>>  > Anthony Gill
>>  > Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2015 1:12 AM
>>  > To: Karl Magnacca
>>  > Cc:
>>  TAXACOM; Dr. Antonio Lopez
>>  > Subject: Re:
>>  [Taxacom] Forgotting at the edge of miracles
>>  >
>>  > Of course, there are
>>  other from beyond panbiogeography that are concerned
>>  > that dispersal explanations should not be
>>  given a first-order explanation for
>>  >
>>  everything in biogeography. There is pattern to be
>>  discovered and explored. A
>>  > presumption
>>  of dispersal as an explanation for everything makes for
>>  > uninteresting, and ultimately irrelevant,
>>  research. I want no part of that.
>>  >
>>  > Tony
>>  >
>>  > On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Karl
>>  Magnacca
>>  > <kmagnacca at wesleyan.edu>
>>  > wrote:
>>  >
>>  > > On Thu, 23 Apr 2015 13:24:32
>>  "Dr. Antonio Lopez"
>>  > >
>>  <cycas at mnhnc.inf.cu>
>>  wrote:
>>  > > > Colleague:
>>  > > >
>>  > > >
>>  Thank you for the article of Head. Only when I read
>>  everything I am
>>  > > > able to
>>  understand and to reason. I never understood that
>>  supposed
>>  > > > difference between
>>  dispersalism and vicariancism as different
>>  > > > schools.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > > That's because
>>  they're not.  It's only in the mind of
>>  panbiogeograpy
>>  > > supporters like
>>  Grehan and Heads, who promote the idea that because
>>  > > rare trans-oceanic dispersal is
>>  unlikely, that therefore it never
>>  > >
>>  happens (while simultaneously claiming that they say no such
>>  thing,
>>  > > invoking the undefined term
>>  "regular dispersal") that such a dichotomy
>>  > > exists.
>>  > >
>>  > > Karl
>>  > >
>>  > >
>>  _______________________________________________
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>>  > > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may
>>  be searched at:
>>  > > http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>  > >
>>  > > Celebrating
>>  28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
>>  > >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > --
>>  > Dr Anthony C. Gill
>>  >
>>  Natural History Curator
>>  > A12 Macleay
>>  Museum
>>  > University of Sydney
>>  > NSW 2006
>>  >
>>  Australia.
>>  >
>>  > Ph.
>>  +61 02 9036 6499
>>  >
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  > Taxacom Mailing List
>>  >
>>  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>  > http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>  > The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
>>  searched at:
>>  > http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>  >
>>  > Celebrating 28 years
>>  of Taxacom in 2015.
>>
>>  _______________________________________________
>>  Taxacom Mailing List
>>  Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>>  http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>>  The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be
>>  searched at: http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>
>>  Celebrating 28 years of
>>  Taxacom in 2015.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Taxacom Mailing List
>> Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/taxacom
>> The Taxacom Archive back to 1992 may be searched at:
>> http://taxacom.markmail.org
>>
>> Celebrating 28 years of Taxacom in 2015.
>>
>
>


-- 
Dr Anthony C. Gill
Natural History Curator
A12 Macleay Museum
University of Sydney
NSW 2006
Australia.

Ph. +61 02 9036 6499

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