[Taxacom] are early online publications code-compliant?
Michael Heads
m.j.heads at gmail.com
Wed Apr 8 00:49:33 CDT 2015
2015
Geoff,
Your point that 'It's de facto universal electronic publication' is the key
thing. (On the other hand, many legal documents are still hardcopy - with
ink signatures...).
Michael
On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 3:13 PM, Geoffrey Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> Stephen,
>
> I don't think it's pointless. It aligns the online-published date the
> publisher puts in the version of record with the date of Code availability
> so we all can know that date. Keep it simple.
>
> Publishers no longer seem to display actual print dates (= the much later
> availability date in absence of ZooBank registration) because they are now
> irrelevant to everyone except us taxonomists. It's de facto universal
> electronic publication. So retrospectively determining this redundant
> print date a few years later when a priority conflict is discovered is
> probably very time-consuming, if not impossible. Let's not go there.
>
> Geoff
>
>
> On Wed, April 8, 2015 12:03 pm, Stephen Thorpe wrote:
> > Geoff,
> >
> > I was merely pointing out that there are ways to circumvent priority if
> > anyone really wanted to, so validly publishing online before print (in
> > order to protect priority) is a bit pointless. Valid online publication
> is
> > really only necessary for e-only publication, which is still relatively
> > rare. Anyway, taxonomists seem to be becoming increasingly disinterested
> > in Code compliance.
> >
> > Stephen
> >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Wed, 8/4/15, Geoffrey Read <gread at actrix.gen.nz> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: RE: [Taxacom] are early online publications code-compliant?
> > To: "Stephen Thorpe" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
> > Cc: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org, taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
> > gread at actrix.gen.nz, "'Frank T. Krell'" <frank.krell at dmns.org>
> > Received: Wednesday, 8 April, 2015, 12:31 PM
> >
> >
> > Stephen,
> >
> > The
> > reality is that many online-before-print publishers are not
> > following
> > the simple requirements to
> > register their version-of-record in ZooBank
> > also.
> >
> > I very
> > much wish that authors *were* indeed aware of the issue and
> > *were*
> > protecting their rightful priority by
> > making their names Code compliant as
> > they
> > should. That is a crunch issue at the moment. The idea of
> > a
> > conspiracy of editors/authors further
> > gaming the system by false
> > backdating
> > frankly seems fairly far-fetched.
> >
> > It amazes me how oblivious experienced
> > taxonomists can be to
> > well-advertised code
> > changes.
> >
> > Geoff
> >
> > On Wed, April 8, 2015 9:05 am, Stephen Thorpe
> > wrote:
> > >>and the "when" part
> > only really comes into play in cases where there are
> > >> names in competition for
> > priority<
> > >
> > > Yes,
> > but we seem to have a reality in which authors and
> > publishers are
> > > "protecting"
> > their new names, for the few months between online and
> > print
> > > publication, by preregistering
> > Online First articles on ZooBank. Given
> > >
> > that the print issue typically follows in a few months, the
> > only rational
> > > reason I can see for
> > making the Online version available is "protection
> > of
> > > priority". If you take what I
> > wrote in my last post a step further, you
> > > will see that e-publications can easily be
> > backdated by registering them
> > > on
> > ZooBank before they are published (or even written!) and
> > then citing
> > > the LSID plus a suitably
> > backdated publication date in the work!
> > >
> > > Stephen
> > >
> > >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > > On Wed, 8/4/15, Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Subject:
> > RE: [Taxacom] are early online publications
> > code-compliant?
> > > To:
> > "'Stephen Thorpe'" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
> > > Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
> > gread at actrix.gen.nz,
> > "'Frank T. Krell'"
> > >
> > <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
> > > Received: Wednesday, 8 April, 2015, 9:54
> > AM
> > >
> > > Hi
> > Stephen,
> > >
> > > As you
> > note, mis-matches
> > > between cited date
> > (within work) and actual date
> > > have
> > always existed. Electronic works require
> > > the addition of the date of
> > > publication to
> > > be
> > within the work itself, but nobody ever actually
> > > believed
> > > that
> > such dates could always be
> > > trusted to
> > be accurate.
> > >
> > >
> > You've nicely outlined EXACTLY why I have
> > > always been opposed to the
> > >
> > "registered+published=available"
> > > model. The fundamental issue is that,
> > for
> > > the first time, we have Code
> > requirements that
> > > are de-coupled in
> > time. As
> > > such, date of
> > > availability must be regarded as the
> > latter of two
> > > separate
> > > things (registration requirements
> > > fulfilled, and publication
> > requirements
> > > fulfilled). That's
> > not complex per-se,
> > > but it does
> > establish a fundamental
> > > requirement
> > for checking two things (instead of
> > >
> > one). Fortunately, one of
> > > those
> > things is
> > > straightforward (date of
> > registration). Note: one thing
> > >
> > that
> > > is not currently on the
> > ZooBank
> > > website, but could be added,
> > is the date on
> > > which all requirements
> > of registration for
> > > electronic works
> > were completed.
> > > I plan to
> > > add this when I have time.
> > >
> > > Importantly
> > however, it's easier to
> > > determine
> > *that* a work is available,
> > > than
> > > it is to determine *when* it was
> > available, and the
> > > "when"
> > part only
> > > really comes into
> > > play in cases where there are names in
> > competition for
> > > priority.
> > >
> > > Aloha,
> > > Rich
> > >
> > > Richard L. Pyle, PhD
> > > Database
> > >
> > Coordinator for Natural Sciences | Associate Zoologist in
> > > Ichthyology | Dive Safety Officer
> > > Department of Natural Sciences, Bishop
> > Museum,
> > > 1525 Bernice St.,
> > Honolulu,
> > > HI 96817
> > > Ph: (808)848-4115, Fax: (808)847-8252
> > email: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
> > > http://hbs.bishopmuseum.org/staff/pylerichard.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Stephen Thorpe [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 10:33
> > AM
> > > > To: deepreef at bishopmuseum.org
> > > > Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu;
> > > gread at actrix.gen.nz;
> > > 'Frank T. Krell'
> > > > Subject: RE:
> > >
> > [Taxacom] are early online publications code-compliant?
> > > >
> > > > >Not
> > really all
> > > that complex,
> > actually<
> > > >
> > > > Actually, the
> > "complexities" I
> > > had in
> > mind include this scenario: ZooBank
> > >
> > > registration happens after e-publication,
> > > the LSID is added to the work,
> > > but the
> > > >
> > citation in the work of the initial
> > >
> > publication date isn't changed. So,
> > > the
> > > cited
> > > > date isn't the valid date of
> > > publication, but that is OK, since
> > apparently
> > > cited
> > > > publication dates
> > > can be incorrect. So, presumably, we
> > must take the date
> > > of
> > > > ZooBank registration to
> > > be the valid date of publication. But,
> > the LSID
> > > might not
> > > > have been added
> > > to the work until sometime after that
> > date.
> > > Retrospectively,
> > > > there
> > > does
> > not seem to be any way to determine when the LSID was
> > > added to
> > > > the
> > work.
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Stephen
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > --------------------------------------------
> > > > On Tue, 7/4/15, Richard Pyle <deepreef at bishopmuseum.org>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Subject:
> > >
> > RE: [Taxacom] are early online publications
> > > code-compliant?
> > >
> > > To:
> > > "'Stephen
> > Thorpe'" <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
> > > > Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu,
> > > gread at actrix.gen.nz,
> > > "'Frank T. Krell'"
> > > >
> > > <Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
> > > > Received: Tuesday, 7 April, 2015,
> > 7:38
> > > PM
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Even
> > > that is
> > > >
> > somewhat unclear. If the PDF
> > > is
> > reupped with (previously
> > > >
> > > missing)
> > > >
> > > evidence of ZooBank
> > > >
> > preregistration (where "pre-"
> > > means "before the date >
> > reupped"), then
> > > it
> > > > might be available
> > > before the print edition, but there are
> > a > lot of
> > > > complexities
> > ...
> > > >
> > >
> > > The general consensus -- at
> > >
> > > least among Commissioners I have
> > > discussed this with -- is that a
> > work
> > > >
> > >
> > becomes available the moment it fulfills all
> > requirements
> > > of the Code.
> > > This
> > > > has
> > > always been true for printed works;
> > and there is no reason
> > > to think
> > > it
> > > > should
> > be
> > > any different for electronic
> > works. Using your
> > > hypothetical
> > > example
> > > >
> > > above, the moment the
> > "reupped" PDF (with
> > >
> > included evidence for ZooBank
> > > >
> > > registration) is obtainable (and
> > assuming all other
> > > criteria are
> > > fulfilled), is the
> > > > moment the work becomes
> > available. The
> > > same would apply
> > to cases when
> > > > the
> > > ZooBank record is subsequently updated
> > to include required
> > > elements,
> > > > such as the ISSN or
> > > indication of an online Archive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > Not
> > > > really all
> > > that complex, actually.
> > > >
> > > > Of
> > course, all of these problems will
> > >
> > vanish when if/when we adopt the
> > >
> > >
> > > Registered=Available model of
> > registration (leaving
> > >
> > "Publication" to the
> > >
> > realm
> > > > of science; not part of
> > the realm of
> > > nomenclatural
> > availability).
> > > >
> > > > Aloha,
> > >
> > > Rich
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Geoffrey B. Read, Ph.D.
> 8 Zaida Way, Maupuia
> Wellington, NEW ZEALAND
> gread at actrix.gen.nz
>
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>
--
Dunedin, New Zealand.
My books:
Craw, R., J. Grehan, M. Heads. 1999. *Panbiogeography: Tracking the history
of life*. Oxford University Press, New York.
http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=Bm0_QQ3Z6GUC
<http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=Bm0_QQ3Z6GUC&dq=panbiogeography&source=gbs_navlinks_s>
Heads, M. 2012.* Molecular panbiogeography of the tropics. *University of
California Press, Berkeley. www.ucpress.edu/book.php?isbn=9780520271968
Heads, M. 2014.* Biogeography of Australasia: A molecular analysis*.
Cambridge University Press, Cambridge. www.cambridge.org/9781107041028
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