[Taxacom] [iczn-list] provisions to the Code

Tue Apr 15 17:02:15 CDT 2014

Doug is a Commissioner, but not the Commission. Doug is free to make suggestions. This is different from an "attempt of the ICZN", isn't it?

Frank

Dr. Frank-T. Krell, Chair, ZooBank Committee
http://zoobank.org
Commissioner, International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature
Curator of Entomology
Department of Zoology
Denver Museum of Nature & Science
2001 Colorado Boulevard
Denver, CO 80205-5798 USA
Frank.Krell at dmns.org
Phone: (+1) (303) 370-8244
Fax: (+1) (303) 331-6492
http://www.dmns.org/science/museum-scientists/frank-krell
lab page: http://www.dmns.org/krell-lab

From: Stephen Thorpe [mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:58 PM
To: Frank T. Krell; fautin at ku.edu; dyanega at ucr.edu; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] [iczn-list] provisions to the Code

What I refer to relates to this: http://iczn.org/node/40405
I can't seem to located the details of the mechanism involving ZooBank that was proposed, but Doug was the one who seemed to be proposing it. The idea was that after a name is registered on ZooBank, there is a period during which those ZooBank users who are deemed to be "bona fide" could vote against the availability of the name. So, the idea was that everyone would vote "no" for Hoser's names, and Hoser himself and his cronies wouldn't be able to vote. Ah, true democracy!!

Stephen

From: "Frank.Krell at dmns.org<mailto:Frank.Krell at dmns.org>" <Frank.Krell at dmns.org<mailto:Frank.Krell at dmns.org>>
To: stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz<mailto:stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>; fautin at ku.edu<mailto:fautin at ku.edu>; dyanega at ucr.edu<mailto:dyanega at ucr.edu>; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, 16 April 2014 9:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] [iczn-list] provisions to the Code

What "name filter" via ZooBank???
What attempt of the ICZN???

Frank

Dr. Frank-T. Krell, Chair, ZooBank Committee
http://zoobank.org/
Commissioner, International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature
Curator of Entomology
Department of Zoology
Denver Museum of Nature & Science
2001 Colorado Boulevard
Denver, CO 80205-5798 USA
Frank.Krell at dmns.org<mailto:Frank.Krell at dmns.org>
Phone: (+1) (303) 370-8244
Fax: (+1) (303) 331-6492
http://www.dmns.org/science/museum-scientists/frank-krell
lab page: http://www.dmns.org/krell-lab

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> [mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>] On Behalf Of Stephen Thorpe
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 3:40 PM
To: Fautin, Daphne G.; Doug Yanega; taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] [iczn-list] provisions to the Code

All this goes to show something which I have been trying to say for a while now, namely that the zoological Code is far to complicated to be applied in practice to any "nonstandard" case. Only an officially published Opinion by the ICZN can resolve such nonstandard cases. Individual commissioners have a habit, in my experience, of "making up the rules as they go along", which is unsatisfactory. I will only accept that Hoser's names are unavailable if that is an officially published Opinion by the ICZN. And I'm not impressed at all by the recent (and ongoing??) attempt by the ICZN to pass such decisions back to "the taxonomic community" in a Code ratified way (i.e. the so-called "name filter" via ZooBank). It is the job of the ICZN to make these decisions.

Stephen

________________________________
From: "Fautin, Daphne G." <fautin at ku.edu<mailto:fautin at ku.edu>>
To: Doug Yanega <dyanega at ucr.edu<mailto:dyanega at ucr.edu>>; "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, 16 April 2014 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] [iczn-list] provisions to the Code

Sorry, but the illustration is not the type.  The Code clearly stipulates that it is the individual illustrated that is the type -- Article 72.5.6.

And while we are on this subject, I will stop remaining silent.  Some of the animals that interest me simply disintegrate in preservative.  They cannot be pinned, they cannot be skinned, they cannot be dried (well, maybe they can, but then nothing useful can be done with them).  I take it as part of my function as a Commissioner to represent such animals to the community -- to remind people that toetags or pins cannot be universally applied.  A photo of the living animal that belongs to one of those groups will be far more informative than a jar with some slurry at the bottom.  Moreover, there are deep-sea animals that elude capture but that are repeatedly seen.  Yes, we cannot be certain that all that are spotted belong to the same species, but having a name attached to a photo and some distinguishing features is far superior, in my view, to names such as Big Red, or Species Z, which are what are commonly applied.  This does not begin to deal
with marine animals that are too large or rare to be put to death for deposition in a museum.

Daphne

Daphne G. Fautin
Professor, Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
Curator, Natural History Museum (Biodiversity Institute)
University of Kansas
1200 Sunnyside Avenue
Lawrence, Kansas 66045 USA

telephone 1-785-864-3062
fax 1-785-864-5321
skype user name daphne.fautin
evo user name fautin
website: invertebratezoology.biodiversity.ku.edu/home
cv: www.nhm.ku.edu/inverts/daphne.html<http://www.nhm.ku.edu/inverts/daphne.html>

    database of hexacorals, including sea anemones
      newest version released 2 January 2013
hercules.kgs.ku.edu/Hexacoral/Anemone2/index.cfm

________________________________________
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> [taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>] on behalf of Doug Yanega [dyanega at ucr.edu<mailto:dyanega at ucr.edu>]
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2014 11:54 AM
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu<mailto:taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] [iczn-list] provisions to the Code

On 4/15/14 5:30 AM, Philipp Wagner wrote:
> Dear Adam,
>
> of course it must not be a dead specimen, it can be a
> living specimen in captivity or even an illustrated
> specimen. But it is impossible to fix an observed specimen
> because you cannot link it with an individual, especially
> if it is a secondary observation.
>
> Philipp
>
>
>> Dr. Wagner,
>>
>> Please read 16.4.2 again. It is not about extant
>> species, it is about extant
>> SPECIMENS, ie ones preserved in a collection somewhere,
>> not live ones
>> running, flying or swimming around.
>>
>> There is nothing in the ICZN Code that states that the
>> holotype must be a
>> dead specimen.
>>
>> Of course it is preferable that a dead specimen or a
>> sample of its tissue
>> should be designated as holotype, but failure to provide
>> a specimen or
>> sample per se does not invalidate the name.
>>
>> Adam.
>>
Finally. At least ONE person here interprets the Code the way the
Commissioners do. Explicit fixation means there can be no ambiguity as
to which specimen is the holotype; the only - I repeat, ONLY - provision
in the Code that allows for the holotype to be something other than a
physical specimen is Art. 73.1.4, which permits authors to explicitly
designate illustrations as types. After 2000, THERE ARE NO OTHER ALLOWED
EXCEPTIONS. Mr. Thorpe seems to be under the mistaken impression that
anything which is not explicitly prohibited (i.e., that the Code does
not explicitly say "unpublished observations cannot be used as the basis
for a holotype designation") must therefore be allowed, but that is NOT
how this works. A database record is UNPUBLISHED, and cannot therefore
be cited as a method of indication for a type specimen. Everything in
the Code assumes that the relevant bits of information are PUBLISHED.
Again, if Hoser had published photos of the type specimens, the Code
would - marginally - have been satisfied, so long as he explicitly
designated those photos AS the types (under 73.1.4). To reinforce my
point, there is ONLY ONE Article in the Code that allows for the use of
unpublished data relevant to type designation, and that is Art.
72.4.1.1, which allows for unpublished information to be used in the
determination as to which specimens are part of the type series - but
this is explicitly ONLY for names published prior to 2000!! Hoser's
names were published AFTER that cutoff, and are therefore NOT eligible
to make use of unpublished data when determining which specimens are in
the type series - accordingly, there is no type series in this case,
because there is no holotype.

There are no other if's, and's, or but's to be applied in this case,
despite what Stephen, Neal, and others are trying to claim; Hoser failed
to meet the conditions for an *explicit fixation* of a holotype, as
required by Art. 16.4.1, therefore his names are unavailable. It might
have worked prior to 2000, but the present edition of the Code,
mercifully, contains provisions that exclude the present case.

Sincerely,

--
Doug Yanega      Dept. of Entomology      Entomology Research Museum
Univ. of California, Riverside, CA 92521-0314    skype: dyanega
phone: (951) 827-4315 (disclaimer: opinions are mine, not UCR's)
              http://cache.ucr.edu/~heraty/yanega.html
  "There are some enterprises in which a careful disorderliness
        is the true method" - Herman Melville, Moby Dick, Chap. 82

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Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.
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Celebrating 27 years of Taxacom in 2014.