[Taxacom] [iczn-list] provisions to the Code

Tue Apr 15 16:07:40 CDT 2014

That is your interpretation Cristian, but it goes well beyond anything written in the Code.
?
Stephen

________________________________
From: Cristian Ruiz Altaba <cruizaltaba at dgcc.caib.es>
To: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> 
Cc: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> 
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2014 7:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] [iczn-list] provisions to the Code

Dear Stephen,

I have to disagree. Hoser's "holotypes" are specimens that never existed, because there are no museum specimens with the catalog numbers he stated. This was no lapsus calami. And his species-level taxa existed solely in his own mind, because he trusted an unverified (and unverifiable) sighting as being a live specimen of a clade actually constituted (determined if you wish) by other specimens. Without examining any specimen of his new taxa, and having as evidence only undeterminable sightings by others, his taxa remain purely hypothetical. A prediction, maybe... but hypothetical at any rate.

In addition, there is another major issue with Hoser's description. He provides not a single diagnostic trait for his new species and subspecies! All his verbosity refers to trends, averages, appreciations, and unspecified differences reported in others' work. This alone makes those names unavailable. 

Best,

Cristian

-----Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz> escribi?: ----- 
Para: Cristian Ruiz Altaba <cruizaltaba at dgcc.caib.es>, Wolfgang Wuster <w.wuster at bangor.ac.uk>
De: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
Fecha: 14/04/2014 22:47
cc: "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
Asunto: Re: [Taxacom] [iczn-list] provisions to the Code

No way! Cristian, you are reading into the Code your own interpretation. Check the glossary: 
?
concept, hypothetical, n.
A taxonomic concept that when published contained no animal then known to exist in nature, past or present, but only in the mind of the author whether a prediction or not [Art. 1.3.1].

This is not the situation with Hoser's turtles (or else they would be equally hypothetical when Thomas et al. renamed them!)

Stephen

________________________________
From: Cristian Ruiz Altaba <cruizaltaba at dgcc.caib.es>
To: Wolfgang Wuster <w.wuster at bangor.ac.uk> 
Cc: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>; "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> 
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2014 4:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] [iczn-list] provisions to the Code

It's really much easier.?

Hoser designated as holotype something he had never actually seen, based entirely on the unwarranted assumption that the selected turtle should have been a member of what somebody else had identified as a distinct taxon on the basis of some other specimens. That's a long stretch. Taking it for granted is trying to fool everybody.?

Thus, Hoser's description is based on an entirely conjectural identification. As an inevitable consequence, his proposed new taxon is simply a hypothetical concept. This is expicitly outside the Code (Art. 1.3.1).?

End of the game.

Best,

Cristian R. Altaba?

-----taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu escribi?: ----- 
Para: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>, "taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu> 

De: Wolfgang Wuster 
Enviado por: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Fecha: 14/04/2014 09:54
Asunto: Re: [Taxacom] [iczn-list] provisions to the Code

Isn't that rather like blaming the cat for pulling when someone is holding its tail?

Wolfgang

________________________________________
From: Stephen Thorpe <stephen_thorpe at yahoo.co.nz>
Sent: 14 April 2014 08:25
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu; Wolfgang Wuster
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] [iczn-list] provisions to the Code

Unless the ICZN rules that Hoser's names are unavailable, they cannot be ignored (without jeopardising the communication and information retrieval function of zoological nomenclature)

Stephen
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