[Taxacom] Frog biogeography

Tue Apr 1 12:43:13 CDT 2014

Fred,

'consensus' means everyone, but not everyone takes the view expressed in
the Wikapedia page. Interestingly, the three references given show (4)   Frost,
Grant, Faivovich, Bain, Haas, Haddad, de S?, Channing, Wilkinson,
Donnellan, Raxworthy, Campbell, Blotto, Moler, Drewes, Nussbaum, Lynch, and
Green, 2006, Bull. Am. Mus. Nat. Hist.,
297<http://research.amnh.org/vz/herpetology/amphibia/index.php//Bibliography/F/Frost-Grant-Faivovich-Bain-Haas-Haddad-de-Sa-Channing-Wilkinson-Donnellan-Raxworthy-Campbell-Blotto-Moler-Drewes-Nussbaum-Lynch-and-Green-2006-Bull.-Am.-Mus.-Nat.-Hist.-297>,
discussed why *Leiopelma* and *Ascaphus* should be associated and found
this inclusive taxon to sit phylogenetically as the sister taxon of all
other frogs, as did Roelants, Gower, Wilkinson, Loader, Biju, Guillaume,
Moriau, and Bossuyt, 2007, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA,
104<http://research.amnh.org/vz/herpetology/amphibia/index.php//Bibliography/R/Roelants-Gower-Wilkinson-Loader-Biju-Guillaume-Moriau-and-Bossuyt-2007-Proc.-Natl.-Acad.-Sci.-USA-104>:
887-892states:

 ref 5 is a 2009 paper that does not present a phylogenetic analysis. Ref 6
links to TOL that states:

*Ascaphus* and *Leiopelma* have usually been placed in the same family,
sometimes called Ascaphidae or Leiopelmatidae (the latter name is the
nomenclaturally correct one). This arrangement has been recognized as based
on shared primitive characters (Green and Cannatella, 1993), because no
morphological synapomorphies have been proposed to unite the two taxa.

However, analyses of molecular data have indicated that *Ascaphus* and
*Leiopelma* are sister-groups, but the divergence between them is very
deep. Hay et al. (1995) analyzed relationships among families of frogs
using 12S and 16S rRNA and found *Ascaphus* and *Leiopelma* to be
sister-groups.  The same arrangement was found by Roelants et al. (2005)
and San Mauro et al. (2005).

So there would seem to be no 'consensus' supporting dissociation and Ken's
assertion that the leiopelmatid clade is outdated does not appear to be
substantiated. In place of monopphyly some studies I saw years a go
appeared to provide for one of the two genera being basal to all other
frogs, and then the other genus was basal in all other frogs and this would
still place the two basal-most groups straddling the Pacific.

John Grehan

On Wed, Apr 2, 2014 at 5:29 AM, Fred Schueler <bckcdb at istar.ca> wrote:

> On 4/1/2014 11:25 AM, John Grehan wrote:
> > I did not see any evidence from Ken refuting a leiopelmatid clade
> > encompassing NZ, W Nam and Argentina (fossil). Some on this list may find
> > the biogeography of this group in relation to all other frogs of some
> > interest.
>
> * I haven't chased this further, but... "While some taxonomists have
> suggested combining the North American frogs of the genus Ascaphus in
> the Ascaphidae family with the New Zealand frogs of the genus Leiopelma
> in the Leiopelmatidae family, the current consensus is that these two
> groups constitute two separate families.[4][5][6] ...The family
> Ascaphidae, of the same suborder, shares these primitive
> characteristics, and hence the two have often been described as related,
> or even part of the same family."
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leiopelmatidae
>
> fred.
> ==========================
>
> >
> > Heads notes that "The family is sister to all other modern frogs...With
> its
> > western North American records, Leiopelmatidae cannot be Gondwanan. San
> > Mauro et al (2005) described the leiopelmatid genera as 'merely relicts',
> > but this does not explain the overall allopatry between the family,
> > straddling the central Pacific basin, and all other frogs, which are
> absent
> > from the Pacific east of Fiji...The split between the Pacific
> > Leiopelmatidae and all other frogs dates back to the Paleozoic or early
> > Mesozoic (San Mauro et al., 2005), before the Jurassic formation of the
> > Pacific plate and the Pacific basin."
> >
> >
> > John Grehan
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