[Taxacom] Paper on taxonomic standards in herpetology

Wed May 15 16:16:39 CDT 2013

John Grehan's point about suppression is very appropriate. After all who
chooses the peer reviewers but (possibly/probably) their buddies?

In any case, taxonomy has the supreme option of synonymy to "suppress"
over-enthusiastic naming of new species.

Brian Taylor

On 15/05/2013 21:56, "JF Mate" <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com> wrote:

> Cristian, the problem with your approach is that if the publication or
> publications are code compliant, how can the ICZN suppress the names? Peer
> pressure alone is not sufficient. Hence the suggestion on modifying what
> constitutes a valid publication which I acknowledge can be, in part,
> circumvented by those married and/or resourceful enough.
> 
> I understand that the logic behind the ICZN is to avoid overlegislating and
> infringing on taxonomic judgement (or lack of) but I think that a tighter
> definition of what constitutes a publication, which is after all the
> vehicle of the taxonomic work, deserves the argument. And to avoid bigger
> messes could it not be made non retroactive?
> 
> In any case, as it seems highly improbable that the definition of a
> publication will be modified, I will instead suggest that we canonize
> Sisyphus as the saint of taxonomy.
> 
> Jason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 15 May 2013 22:24, Cristian Ruiz Altaba <cruizaltaba at dgcc.caib.es> wrote:
> 
>> A case that may bring some light.
>> 
>> In a rather uninteresting place in eastern Iberia, an ornithologist
>> started building up a list of rare species he had recorded there. First it
>> was amazing to find rare migrants there. But the summit was reached when he
>> claimed there was a population of the critically endangered Crex crex. That
>> was too much. So people who had grown suspicious spoke out their concerns.
>> The Spanish Ornithological Society started (SEO) a process to clear out the
>> thuth. In the end, nobody coud find any proof in the field, so that
>> particular ornithologist and all of his records were unanimously set aside.
>> That does not mean anyone can record rare birds. Instead, it was a good way
>> of halting vandalism.
>> 
>> If ICZN could work out a scheme similar to that of SEO, vandalism could be
>> treated in a case by case manner, with fairness but strength. Those
>> directly affected would have the opportunity to discuss the issue, for the
>> beneft of all taxonomsts. Perhaps opening a case to suppress all of the
>> names criticized by Kaiser et al.?
>> 
>> Cristian
>> 
>> *
>> *
>> 
>> 
>> -----taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu ha escrit: -----
>> 
>> Per a: Taxacom <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>> De: JF Mate <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com>
>> Enviat per: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
>> Data: 15/05/2013 22:05
>> Assumpte: Re: [Taxacom] Paper on taxonomic standards in herpetology
>> 
>> 
>> True, but they would have to be married in the first place :). Still, all
>> laws can be bent if you try hard enough including the ones in my copy of
>> the ICZN. And yet here it is, a set of rules which have been enacted in the
>> hope that most people will follow them (more or less). Unless of course
>> this is the last copy because we are giving up altogether and going back to
>> the 19th century. If so I am selling names ;).
>> 
>> Jason
>> 
>> 
>> On 15 May 2013 21:54, <Frank.Krell at dmns.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Well, then, transfer the ownership of that journal to your wife.
>>> If somebody wants to publish things, he or she will find ways,
>> independent
>>> of how tough the regulations are.
>>> 
>>> Frank
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Dr. Frank-T. Krell
>>> Curator of Entomology
>>> Commissioner, International Commission on Zoological Nomenclature
>>> Chair, ICZN ZooBank Committee
>>> Department of Zoology
>>> Denver Museum of Nature & Science
>>> 2001 Colorado Boulevard
>>> Denver, CO 80205-5798 USA
>>> Frank.Krell at dmns.org
>>> Phone: (+1) (303) 370-8244
>>> Fax: (+1) (303) 331-6492
>>> http://www.dmns.org/science/museum-scientists/frank-krell
>>> lab page: http://www.dmns.org/krell-lab
>>> 
>>> The Denver Museum of Nature & Science aspires to create a community of
>>> critical thinkers who understand the lessons of the past and act as
>>> responsible stewards of the future.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu [mailto:
>>> taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of JF Mate
>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2013 1:48 PM
>>> To: Taxacom
>>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Paper on taxonomic standards in herpetology
>>> 
>>> "To close this supposed loophole you would have to totally redefine the
>>> criteria constituting a published work (ie. Article 8), especially if you
>>> would restrict all nomenclatorial acts to peer reviewed journals only."
>>> 
>>> It seems that the issue is limited to section 8.1, as to what constitutes
>>> a valid work. Adding additional limitations to the effect of avoiding
>>> flagrant conflict of interests (i.e. you can?t own the journal, be the
>>> editor and publish in it simultaneously) should be possible without
>>> impinging too much on the varied offer of publication outlets that we
>>> currently have.
>>> 
>>> Jason
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 15 May 2013 21:09, Adam Cotton <adamcot at cscoms.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "JF Mate" <aphodiinaemate at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Taxacom" <taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 1:43 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Paper on taxonomic standards in herpetology
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Ah, well this is something I didn?t know about the code, a loophole
>>>> you could drive a bus through. Thanks Frank. Now for the follow-up
>>> question.
>>>> What are chances of closing said loophole? I am certain there are
>>>> reasons why it hasn?t happened yet but it is interesting for the more
>>>> naive like me.
>>>> 
>>>> Jason
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> To close this supposed loophole you would have to totally redefine the
>>>> criteria constituting a published work (ie. Article 8), especially if
>>>> you would restrict all nomenclatorial acts to peer reviewed journals
>>> only.
>>>> 
>>>> Adam.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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> Celebrating 26 years of Taxacom in 2013.