[Taxacom] Transatlantic rafting not uncommon

Wed Oct 19 21:19:27 CDT 2011

Exactly. So the Vidal study was flawed,?the clades could me much older than they estimated, and simple trans-Atlantic vicariance could be the explanation fot the allopatry.

Michael

Wellington, New Zealand.

My papers on biogeography are at: http://tiny.cc/RiUE0

________________________________
From: Robin Leech <releech at telus.net>
To: 'Michael Heads' <michael.heads at yahoo.com>; 'Kenneth Kinman' <kennethkinman at webtv.net>
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2011 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: [Taxacom] Transatlantic rafting not uncommon

Which, I think, is normal.? A species has to get there.? Nothing says it has
to evolve quickly once it gets there.
Robin

-----Original Message-----
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Michael Heads
Sent: October-19-11 7:27 PM
To: Kenneth Kinman
Cc: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Transatlantic rafting not uncommon

Hi Ken,
?
The phylogeny in the Vidal study was calibrated by assuming that Caribbean
island endemic squamates cannot be?older than their islands. But other
studies (Thorpe et al., 2005 Mol Ecol, 2008?Mol. Ecol.) have dated?Caribbean
island endemic squamates as?older than their islands.
?
Michael Heads? 

Wellington, New Zealand.

My papers on biogeography are at: http://tiny.cc/RiUE0

________________________________
From: Kenneth Kinman <kennethkinman at webtv.net>
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
Sent: Thursday, 20 October 2011 1:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Taxacom] Transatlantic rafting not uncommon

John,
? ? ?? As for Renner's work, just do a google search for:? Renner
transatlantic dispersal.? Lot's of interesting stuff pops up.? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? 
? ? ? And for amphisbaenian biogeography in particular, I would strongly
recommend reading the 2008 paper by Vidal (Biol Lett., 4:115-118), which
is freely available online.? I am not sure I will completely agree with
their phylogeny and conclusions (this is one group I want to look at
more carefully when I have time).? However, they make a very good case
that purely vicariant explanations of amphisbaenian evolution and
biogeography are very problematic (and overly simplistic) in the face of
more recent data.? And more than one transatlantic dispersal was almost
certainly involved during the Cenozoic.? ? 

? ? ?? And although I was initially surprised that such subterranean
lizards rafted across the Atlantic, I am not so surprised after thinking
about it today.? Massive land slides giving rise to large rafts of trees
would wash large masses of soil along with them.? Worm lizards washed
out in such an event would have to clamber onto a raft of trees or
perish in the sea.? Burrowing into soil is sort of like swimming, so I
doubt they would have much difficulty swimming in water when their life
depended on it.? The trees would also usually have insects upon which to
feed if the lizards got hungry enough (even if not the kind of insects
they normally would eat).? I don't find it all that terribly mysterious.
Anyway, I look forward to learning more about these lizards.? ? 
? ? ? ? ? ? ? --------Ken? 

----------------------------------------------------
John Grehan wrote:? 

What increasing evidence? 

The amphisbaenians crossed the Atlantic by mysterious means (this idea
of dispersal being mysterious is periodically invoked by dispersalists). 

How does Renner's work support transatlantic dispersal being due to
ocean currents? 
John Grehan 
John Grehan 
-----Original Message----- 
From: taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu 
[mailto:taxacom-bounces at mailman.nhm.ku.edu] On Behalf Of Kenneth
Kinman Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 11:58 PM 
To: taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu 
Subject: [Taxacom] Transatlantic rafting not uncommon 
Dear All, 
? ? ? I have been reading a lot about increasing evidence for a variety
of taxa whose biogeography was affected by TransAtlantic dispersal,
especially by rafting (which I believe is the most common mode of
dispersal in such cases). 
? ? ? However, I was a bit shocked to learn that TransAtlantic rafting
has been proposed for amphisbaenians (worm lizards), burrowing reptiles
which one would think would be far more likely to be affected by
vicariance than by rafting.? See Vidal et al., 2008 (Biol. Lett., 
4:115-118).? ? ? ? 
? ? ? As for plants, I noticed today that the work of Suzanne Renner
(and colleagues) tends to support my suspicion that TransAtlantic
dispersal of taxa seems to be most commonly due to ocean currents (i.e.,
rafting), rather than by wind or by birds.? I still think Rhipsalis
would have gotten from South America to Africa in that manner, but how
it got from there to islands in the Indian Ocean could be by a 
completely different vector.? ? ? 
? ? ? ? ?? -----------Ken Kinman 
______________________________________

_______________________________________________

Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

The Taxacom archive going back to 1992 may be searched with either of these
methods:

(1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org

(2) a Google search specified as:?
site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom? your search terms here
_______________________________________________

Taxacom Mailing List
Taxacom at mailman.nhm.ku.edu
http://mailman.nhm.ku.edu/mailman/listinfo/taxacom

The Taxacom archive going back to 1992 may be searched with either of these
methods:

(1) by visiting http://taxacom.markmail.org

(2) a Google search specified as:? site:mailman.nhm.ku.edu/pipermail/taxacom
your search terms here