Fwd: Re: Skipper

[Daniel Janzen]

John, my take on this is that we should not encourage det attempts on
photos past what we feel absolutely certain about, because the
innocents will put that species level name on that photo, and then
others will have photos that look "exactly" like it, and will not
have the benefit of our ifs, ands and buts.  And then pretty soon
every long-tailed Urbanus from S. America will appear with the name
Urbanus proteus (even that word "group" will disappear, and besides,
nobody but taxonomists knows what is a "group").  I have 7 of them
here in the ACG that look like that thing superficially (and the
greens above go all over the place, depending) and perhaps even more,
and who knows what will be in some Urbanus mess in S. America.

I am all for species level dets on the web from photos, but I think
that we should be brutally honest about not putting a species level
name unless we feel absolutely certain.  Upperside proteus group are,
in my opinion, simply not doable to speciers from photos or
otherwise, unless you already have the entire package of species for
your particular site down cold.

Smile.

Dan Janzen

>X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
>Importance: Normal
>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Aug 2003 13:34:23.0412 (UTC)
>                        FILETIME=[9B903740:01C3619F]
>Date:         Wed, 13 Aug 2003 08:34:14 -0500
>Reply-To: John Shuey <jshuey at TNC.ORG>
>Sender: Taxacom Discussion List <TAXACOM at USOBI.ORG>
>From: John Shuey <jshuey at TNC.ORG>
>Subject:      Re: Skipper
>To: TAXACOM at USOBI.ORG
>Status:
>
>You can take it a step further and say its in the Urbanus "proteus group"
>which at least eliminates about 50% of the other Urbanus species.
>
>Sticking my neck way out - it has a character that is unique to U. proteus
>itself - that's the way the green "fades out" towards the margin of the
>hindwing.   All the other described species in the "proteus group" have a
>sharply defined edge to the iridescent green.   However, this is a character
>that is hard to interpret using a bullet lamp on a pinned bug.  So - the
>lack of an edge to the green could simply be a photographic artifact.
>
>Do you have a photo of the ventral wing surfaces of this specific bug (as
>opposed to a different bug [but seemingly the same species] photographed
>perhaps minutes later - many of the "proteus group" species are very common
>and fly together (perhaps using the same early successional hostplants??).
>There are better characters below.
>
>John
>_________________
>John Shuey
>Director of Conservation Science
>Indiana Office of The Nature Conservancy
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Taxacom Discussion List [mailto:TAXACOM at USOBI.ORG]On Behalf Of
>Daniel Janzen
>Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 3:08 PM
>To: TAXACOM at USOBI.ORG
>Subject: Fwd: Skipper
>
>
>Urbanus.  After that, forget it.  Dont believe anything you hear
>unless it is from Dr. Urbanus.
>
>
>>X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
>>Importance: Normal
>>Date:         Wed, 13 Aug 2003 00:19:18 +0200
>>Reply-To: "Joseph M. Torres" <joseph at FCSF.ORG>
>>Sender: Taxacom Discussion List <TAXACOM at USOBI.ORG>
>>From: "Joseph M. Torres" <joseph at FCSF.ORG>
>>Organization: FCSF
>>Subject:      Skipper
>>To: TAXACOM at USOBI.ORG
>>Status:  O
>>
>>Dear Taxacomers,
>>
>>I am trying to identify this skipper from the southwester coastal region
>>of the province of Esmeraldas (Ecuador).
>>
>>http://www.colibri.ws/forum_colibri/showthread.php?s=
>><http://www.colibri.ws/forum_colibri/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62>
>>&threadid=62
>>
>>Thanks again for your help.
>>
>>Joseph Torres